The Muppets - Communist Puppets? - Page 2

Gaear · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 5:43pm

This automatic dismissal of anything said on Fox News is a bit troubling to me. Surely anyone with any academic standards should judge each instance of reporting or opinion independantly. Shouldn't they? (Likewise MSNBC, etc.)

Being as Fox News, like most any media, has a significant element of opinion pieces and programs (arguably moreso in TV than in newspapers, but AFAIK newspapers are still thought to be the 'real' news), much of their content is obviously going to be similarly based on a given perspective, so what's the big deal? Sorry, but I think that just writing them off across the board is lazy and cheap, and it smacks a bit of intolerance, TBH. No one's at liberty to decide that someone else's opinion doesn't count. Ignore it if you like, but you're better off trying to debunk it if it offends you that terribly. Saying "you suck" doesn't really carry any weight.

People everywhere are going to say things you don't like or don't agree with. IMO the integrity-based way of dealing with that is to maintain a higher standard, not to attempt to discredit them through playground insults and nominal "we all know" categorizations, which are quite clearly an appeal to lowbrow group dynamics where the insider is rewarded for his obediance and the ousider is ostracized.

Anyway, I know I'm being preachy here, but here's an example:

"Fox News said X and I disagree with it for the following reasons ..."

is better than

"Fox News said X but we all know they suck LOL so I don't need to make a case for why I disagree, let's just all agree that they're wrong. FU Fox News!!!"

Besides, 'Fox News' doesn't really say anything. O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck et al do, and they are really not 'them,' they're individuals.

/end Preach

Aldeth the Foppish Idiot · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaear

Besides, 'Fox News' doesn't really say anything. O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck et al do, and they are really not 'them,' they're individuals.

I cannot tell you have many people I know watch those guys, and believe they are watching the news. Just the other day at my in-laws house, they were watching TV when we got there, and passively said they were watching the news. What was on TV? The O'Reilly Factor. Nuff said.

Death Rabbit · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:28pm

I see what you're saying, Geaer. But you're simply missing the boat here.

Fox's conservative perspective isn't the problem. Truth be told, I like that certain news organizations report from a certain perspective. "Bias" isn't really a bad thing, and as long as our news is gathered by human beings instead of robots, we will always have bias in one form or another. But if something is billed as "news," it should at least be accurate.

The problem with Fox and what differentiates them from other networks is their blatant misrepresentation of just about everything - from the positions liberal figures take, things they say, even the bullsh*t body language experts they bring in - to the bias in their story selection, the fact that their "opinion" journalists (whom you rather naively insist are just "individuals" and not "Fox News") are regular, predominant analysts in news pieces, etc. Fox News will only report news that can be presented as a victory for conservative ideology, and will fudge facts to do it. In short, they lie to their audience on a daily basis, have been caught doing so countless times, and use the lame "opinion vs. news" excuse to avoid retracting anything. What's really troubling is how regularly Fox News stories and narratives trickle out into the rest of the media, which we're constantly told is so hopelessly liberal.

Fox is biased and misleading entertainment packaged as news. Their viewers come away believing things that simply aren't true - and I can site thousands of examples of this, some of which has been posted (and debunked) on this very forum.

Being an exclusively conservative network is fine and dandy. There is nothing wrong with opinion journalism that openly proclaims itself to be just that. But Fox pretends bills itself as straight news while blatantly advancing a political agenda by way of comically inaccurate reporting, cherry-picking nuggets of information that show their political enemies in the worst possible light while actively ignoring the bigger picture. I can post dozens of examples of this if you really need them. The other networks simply do not do this to the magnitude that Fox News does it. The closest thing on other networks to what Fox does is probably Ed Schultz on MSNBC - and he's a buffoon, the Sean Hannity of the left. Keith Olbermann, for all his hyperbole and self-righteousness, was actually accurate most of the time. Rachel Maddow goes out of her way to give voice to both sides, does her due dilligance and always admits fault when she needs to. You'll NEVER see that on Fox.

Splunge · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:28pm

Gaear's just being Gaear, so people can feel free to ignore him.

Blades of Vanatar · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:33pm

When my in-laws have Fox News on the tube, I can quite honestly say that half the crap I hear on it is so obviously false it is not funny. Usually I don't even care about the topic they are delivering the "News" on, but it really makes me laugh. Some of hte falsehoods they spit out are so blantatnly obvious it's horifying to think that there is a following of people who believe that crap.At least it has entertainment value as comical to a degree. When watching any other news outlet, whether its CNN, MSNBC or any of the other major networks it feels more like the "News" to me. I don't categorize myself as either on the left or right as I think both sides have major flaws. I find myself somewhere in the middle or better yet, outside of their realms, but Fox is definitely "Out There".

Gaear · Thu, 8th Dec '11, 9:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splunge

Gaear's just being Gaear, so people can feel free to ignore him.

"We all know" that!

@DR, thanks. I don't particularly agree with everything you said, but I do appreciate you going to the trouble of articulating it and I'm content that we've both had our say.

LKD · Fri, 16th Dec '11, 4:20am

The Sesame Street Muppets espouse ideas about sharing, fairness, consideration, kindness, cooperation and confidence.

The Muppet Show Muppets were a little harder edged, and did some pretty wild stuff. One could argue that Sam the Eagle is a parody of a psychotic Republican Patriot.

The Muppets from the films tend to be kinder and gentler, constantly looking for self-actualization and freedom from unfair constraints.

The villain in the first movie was a capitalist restauranteur. Kermit didn't oppose him on communist grounds, he just didn't want to advocate the death of his fellow frogs -- or suffer that death himself!

Now maybe the new movie is a little too green in nature -- I'm not a fan of the green indoctrination of our kids by films like WALL-E or Happy Feet, but I really don't think that watching the Muppets is going to make kids Commies. The more likely explanation is that having an evil polluter as a villain is just so common these days that the Muppet gang decided to jump on the bandwagon.

damedog · Thu, 2nd Feb '12, 4:56pm

Even Miss Piggy hates Fox News:

Death Rabbit · Thu, 2nd Feb '12, 5:30pm

You don't have to hate something to point out how much of a joke it is.

Confused Guyy · Fri, 3rd Feb '12, 5:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Snook

This thread raises an interesting question. Why is it the villian more often than not has to be a corporation, a bank, a rich guy, or a government and the hero has to be someone poor, a minority, someone who communes with Gaia, etc. ?

Why is it acceptable that the media villifies success? Isn't this sending a terrible message to children?

It's less interesting to watch a powerful hero defeat a weak for.

The exictment of a story comes from an underdog hero overcoming a stronger opponent.

A millionaire bank manager beating up evil tramps for 2 hours wouldn't make a great film.

The Shaman · Fri, 3rd Feb '12, 2:16pm

The moral of the story, folks: don't mess with the muppets, even if you are Fox

. Right now I'm trying to imagine how it would sound if Ms. Piggy would do it in a rap format a la Eminem, complete with a hood makeover. It could be awesome.

I said you don't (beat) wanna f..k with Piggy (beat),
('cause why?)
'cause Piggy (beat) will f.....g kill you (beat).
(Haiiii-yah! /karate chop)

Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:28pm	#28
Death Rabbit SPS Account Holder Straight, no chaser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Jahiera's cleavage Posts: 6,022 Like: 18 Liked 30 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 16,733 Level: 36 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 99.53% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 2.52% Monthly Activity 22.09% Achievements	I see what you're saying, Geaer. But you're simply missing the boat here. Fox's conservative perspective isn't the problem. Truth be told, I like that certain news organizations report from a certain perspective. "Bias" isn't really a bad thing, and as long as our news is gathered by human beings instead of robots, we will always have bias in one form or another. But if something is billed as "news," it should at least be accurate. The problem with Fox and what differentiates them from other networks is their blatant misrepresentation of just about everything - from the positions liberal figures take, things they say, even the bullsh*t body language experts they bring in - to the bias in their story selection, the fact that their "opinion" journalists (whom you rather naively insist are just "individuals" and not "Fox News") are regular, predominant analysts in news pieces, etc. Fox News will only report news that can be presented as a victory for conservative ideology, and will fudge facts to do it. In short, they lie to their audience on a daily basis, have been caught doing so countless times, and use the lame "opinion vs. news" excuse to avoid retracting anything. What's really troubling is how regularly Fox News stories and narratives trickle out into the rest of the media, which we're constantly told is so hopelessly liberal. Fox is biased and misleading entertainment packaged as news. Their viewers come away believing things that simply aren't true - and I can site thousands of examples of this, some of which has been posted (and debunked) on this very forum. Being an exclusively conservative network is fine and dandy. There is nothing wrong with opinion journalism that openly proclaims itself to be just that. But Fox pretends bills itself as straight news while blatantly advancing a political agenda by way of comically inaccurate reporting, cherry-picking nuggets of information that show their political enemies in the worst possible light while actively ignoring the bigger picture. I can post dozens of examples of this if you really need them. The other networks simply do not do this to the magnitude that Fox News does it. The closest thing on other networks to what Fox does is probably Ed Schultz on MSNBC - and he's a buffoon, the Sean Hannity of the left. Keith Olbermann, for all his hyperbole and self-righteousness, was actually accurate most of the time. Rachel Maddow goes out of her way to give voice to both sides, does her due dilligance and always admits fault when she needs to. You'll NEVER see that on Fox.
	__________________ Any funny or interesting inane bull**** found in this post is the sole intellectual property of Drew. The risque, tantalizing stuff belongs to Drew's mom.

Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:28pm	#29
Splunge SPS Account Holder Bhaal’s financial advisor Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In hiding after Bhaal became Lord of Murder when I had him put everything into subprime mortgages. Posts: 6,545 Like: 13 Liked 57 Times in 38 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 15,912 Level: 36 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 23.03% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 2.52% Monthly Activity 82.44% Achievements Awards	Gaear's just being Gaear, so people can feel free to ignore him.
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Thu, 8th Dec '11, 6:33pm	#30
Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,560 Like: 38 Liked 42 Times in 30 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,794 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.93% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 103.38% Monthly Activity 107.78% Achievements Awards	When my in-laws have Fox News on the tube, I can quite honestly say that half the crap I hear on it is so obviously false it is not funny. Usually I don't even care about the topic they are delivering the "News" on, but it really makes me laugh. Some of hte falsehoods they spit out are so blantatnly obvious it's horifying to think that there is a following of people who believe that crap.At least it has entertainment value as comical to a degree. When watching any other news outlet, whether its CNN, MSNBC or any of the other major networks it feels more like the "News" to me. I don't categorize myself as either on the left or right as I think both sides have major flaws. I find myself somewhere in the middle or better yet, outside of their realms, but Fox is definitely "Out There".
	__________________ "Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien

Fri, 16th Dec '11, 4:20am	#32
LKD Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Winterfell Posts: 6,204 Like: 20 Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 16,659 Level: 36 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 92.65% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 12.61% Monthly Activity 26.65% Achievements	The Sesame Street Muppets espouse ideas about sharing, fairness, consideration, kindness, cooperation and confidence. The Muppet Show Muppets were a little harder edged, and did some pretty wild stuff. One could argue that Sam the Eagle is a parody of a psychotic Republican Patriot. The Muppets from the films tend to be kinder and gentler, constantly looking for self-actualization and freedom from unfair constraints. The villain in the first movie was a capitalist restauranteur. Kermit didn't oppose him on communist grounds, he just didn't want to advocate the death of his fellow frogs -- or suffer that death himself! Now maybe the new movie is a little too green in nature -- I'm not a fan of the green indoctrination of our kids by films like WALL-E or Happy Feet, but I really don't think that watching the Muppets is going to make kids Commies. The more likely explanation is that having an evil polluter as a villain is just so common these days that the Muppet gang decided to jump on the bandwagon.
	__________________ If women are so perfect at multitasking, how come they can't have a headache & sex at the same time?

Thu, 2nd Feb '12, 4:56pm	#33
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Thu, 8th Dec '11, 5:43pm	#26
Gaear SPS Account Holder Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,686 Like: 49 Liked 69 Times in 45 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,766 Level: 21 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 70.02% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 68.08% Monthly Activity 106.92% Achievements Awards	This automatic dismissal of anything said on Fox News is a bit troubling to me. Surely anyone with any academic standards should judge each instance of reporting or opinion independantly. Shouldn't they? (Likewise MSNBC, etc.) Being as Fox News, like most any media, has a significant element of opinion pieces and programs (arguably moreso in TV than in newspapers, but AFAIK newspapers are still thought to be the 'real' news), much of their content is obviously going to be similarly based on a given perspective, so what's the big deal? Sorry, but I think that just writing them off across the board is lazy and cheap, and it smacks a bit of intolerance, TBH. No one's at liberty to decide that someone else's opinion doesn't count. Ignore it if you like, but you're better off trying to debunk it if it offends you that terribly. Saying "you suck" doesn't really carry any weight. People everywhere are going to say things you don't like or don't agree with. IMO the integrity-based way of dealing with that is to maintain a higher standard, not to attempt to discredit them through playground insults and nominal "we all know" categorizations, which are quite clearly an appeal to lowbrow group dynamics where the insider is rewarded for his obediance and the ousider is ostracized. Anyway, I know I'm being preachy here, but here's an example: "Fox News said X and I disagree with it for the following reasons ..." is better than "Fox News said X but we all know they suck LOL so I don't need to make a case for why I disagree, let's just all agree that they're wrong. FU Fox News!!!" Besides, 'Fox News' doesn't really say anything. O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck et al do, and they are really not 'them,' they're individuals. /end Preach

Thu, 2nd Feb '12, 5:30pm	#34
Death Rabbit SPS Account Holder Straight, no chaser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Jahiera's cleavage Posts: 6,022 Like: 18 Liked 30 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 16,733 Level: 36 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 99.53% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 2.52% Monthly Activity 22.09% Achievements	You don't have to hate something to point out how much of a joke it is.
	__________________ Any funny or interesting inane bull**** found in this post is the sole intellectual property of Drew. The risque, tantalizing stuff belongs to Drew's mom. Last edited by Death Rabbit; Thu, 2nd Feb '12 at 5:41pm.

Fri, 3rd Feb '12, 2:16pm	#36
The Shaman Gems: 28/31 Latest gem: Star Sapphire Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stara Zagora, Bulgaria Posts: 2,831 Blog Entries: 6 Like: 5 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 6,997 Level: 25 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 60.85% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 2.52% Monthly Activity 2.73% Achievements	The moral of the story, folks: don't mess with the muppets, even if you are Fox . Right now I'm trying to imagine how it would sound if Ms. Piggy would do it in a rap format a la Eminem, complete with a hood makeover. It could be awesome. I said you don't (beat) wanna f..k with Piggy (beat), ('cause why?) 'cause Piggy (beat) will f.....g kill you (beat). (Haiiii-yah! /karate chop)
	Last edited by The Shaman; Fri, 3rd Feb '12 at 2:30pm.