Dual-class and Spell Levels

[Ruben]

Example: If I make a Cleric(7)->Fighter dual-class, at what spell level will he cast the cleric spells; most importantly armor of faith?

Armor of Faith (Casting Time: 1 Duration: 3 rounds + 1/level) ABJ.
What it does- Absorbs part of the damage from magical/non-magical attacks. For
every 5 levels, another 5% of damage is absorbed (up to 25% for a 20th-level
priest)

Will he reach 25% absorb when the fighter level is 20?

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

No - it will always be cast as a 7th level cleric, regardless of what level your fighter is. If you want to casting level as a cleric to continue to improve, than you would be better served making a multi-classed fighter-cleric. Or, if you really prefer the concept of dual classing, make a fighter, and dual class him to a cleric at 7th level.

[Ruben]

Alright, thanks. That's what I though as well, but I saw this character recommended in a tactical guide which made me unsure.

Still, he would have 10% absorb from AoF - even 15% if you dual at lvl 10, combined with Defender of Easthaven he would have permanent 30%+ physical resist - 70%+ with hardiness - which would make him a excellent tank, albeit with one important downside; his limitation to blunt weapons only.

[Sir Rechet]

...which isn't much of a limitation if you combine Flail of Ages and Crom?

Although you might have other, definitely more priestly alternatives to use them with.

Edit: Or why not Staff of the Ram?

[SlickRCBD]

There are two reasons not to use Staff of the Ram, three if you consider that you cannot get it until you play Throne of Bhaal. Until then you are stuck with Staff of Rynn.

The other reason is that dual weilding gives you an extra attack per round and extra to-hit and damage bonuses, not to mention any special abilities from equipping an extra weapon.

The third option is using a shield, and while the basic shield's +1 to AC isn't much, some of the magical shields are really good. Take the Fortress shield for a massive boost to AC particularly against missile weapons, the shield of Harmony for immunity to charm and hold, the reflection shield to make you immune to missile attacks (nothing more annoying than an archer interrupting your emergency heal spell and seeing your teammate die), and several other good shields. You can't wield the Shield of Balduran and charge beholders with a staff. I'll reiterate that the basic nonmagical shield isn't worth the opportunity cost of using Staff of Rynn or dual wielding, and even the basic +1 shields probably aren't worth it (although the +1, +4 vs missile might be when facing ranged attackers. Remember, we're talking about a cleric, not a pure fighter. Spell failure can be devastating.). It's only the powerful, unique ones that pay off.

[henkie]

If we're talking about a pure class cleric, I would certainly equip him/her with a shield, simply because they won't meaningfully contribute in any way to a melee fight. Not when compared to a fighter, anyway.

For a dual or multi-classed fighter, it would depend on the party make up. If you've already got enough damage dealers - put a shield on him/her, at least until later in the game. Once you get (if you get) Cromm Faeyr, it is an excellent off-hand choice for any multi or dual-classed cleric. By the time you get to ToB the AC boost from a shield is pretty much moot due to the incredibly high THAC0s every enemy has there.

The Staff of the Ram you can get from the Watcher's Keep, by the way. So definitely possible to get while still in SoA. You won't be able to upgrade it to +6 until ToB, but until then its +4 form is still strictly more powerful than the Staff of Rynn.

[Paracelsi]

I wouldn't say that. Any cleric can reach 25 strength, and between damage buffs and spells like Blade Barrier any cleric can be a dangerous melee opponent in BG2. That is, until people start getting HLA's.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

Originally Posted by Paracelsi

I wouldn't say that. Any cleric can reach 25 strength, and between damage buffs and spells like Blade Barrier any cleric can be a dangerous melee opponent in BG2. That is, until people start getting HLA's.

The problem with a single classed cleric isn't that they can't get a high strength. Not only are there many items you can equip, but a high level cleric would get a huge boost from Draw Upon Holy Might. The problem is that a cleric is limited to one attack per round (two if you dual wield). Of course, it's a whole other story if you are a dual or multi classed fighter/cleric. Those guys typically rock as melee characters. (And one of the reasons I feel Anomen is very under-rated as an NPC.)

Regarding one handed, two handed, or with shield, that IMO is mostly personal preference. Two handed weapons get critical hits twice as often. That, combined with the typically superior damage you get per hit from a two handed weapon somewhat balances out the lack of a second weapon. I would never use a shield just for the AC boost, unless it was a character that couldn't wield any two handed weapon effectively, and also didn't have any proficiency in two weapon style. It has to do something else for me in the way of a status affect - Shield of Harmony for example.

[Sir Rechet]

I've learned to appreciate two-handed weapons just because the main selling point of one-handers, being able to dualwield them, creates all sorts of headache together with ranged attacks. One-hander plus shield combines nicely with one-handed ranged weapons, but it feels a bit backwards to sell off the (cross)bows and stick to slings or throwing weapons for fighter-type characters.

Besides, GWW hurts more with a two-hander and being able to skip Breach in certain spots in ToB is a bonus as well.

[Paracelsi]

Unhasted Clerics of Lathander can reach two (Boon of Lathander), and Clerics of Helm can reach three (Seeking Sword). While I agree that multi-classed clerics are considerably more powerful than single-classed clerics, I'm not so sure about dual-classed clerics. IMO early-mid game seems to fly by much more quickly when you get spells like Aerial Servant earlier, and late game there's always Energy Blades.

[henkie]

Yes, clerics can get spells that give them more attacks per day for a limited time (although with severe restrictions in the case of Seeking Sword), but a F/C combination gets that all day long. And if you dual from fighter to cleric right off the bat in chateau Irenicus, the delay in getting to high level spells will be negligible. As Aldeth said, Anomen shows quite well how a dualled F/C can be a lot more powerful in melee than any single classed cleric is.

Regarding two handed weapons, I think I just prefer the aesthetic of having a single classed cleric go in heavy armor and a shield. For multi- or dual classed clerics it doesn't matter much, though I tend to deck them out for dual wielding, because of weapons like the Mace of Disruption +2, Flail of Ages and Cromm Faeyr. Comparitively quarterstaffs are not quite as fancy. And since you can only use slings anyway for ranged weapons, it's not like a two handed weapon really offers ease of use here.

[Blades of Vanatar]

Clerics are ususally not your main tanks. With that said, you don't need your Cleric to deal massive damage in melee all of the time, only as extra support in certain really tough encounters. Which is where their spell selection steps in. Multi classing is not necessary, though certainly viable and can make the more mundane encounters go by a bit easier and faster. Dauling is almost the equal of Single-classed, so I do like the Dualing option for Humans. I prefer to reach higher spell-levels earlier on.

The main function of the Cleric is keeping the rest of the party alive, mobile, at full strength and un-enchanted by enemy spells and effects. All IMO of course. So I preferably like to keep either a shield or off-hand weapon that adds even more protections to my Cleric. I usually only like to keep one Divine caster and mulitple Arcane casters in my parties though, so I like to keep the Cleric well-protected, especially against the various types of enchantemnt spells and effects.

And that leads to this. I would not advocate 2-H weapons for Clerics. Unless you are using them as one of your High Damage Melee combatants.