Donations
GOG.com
Sorcerer's Place Home | Chatrooms | BoM Rules & FAQ
Sorcerer's Place Stores: Games, Books, DVDs, Merchandise
(buying via these links & our affiliated stores below helps support the site - thanks!)

Have you liked us yet?
Sorcerer's Place on Facebook


Boards o' Magick BoM Blogs!

Go Back   Boards o' Magick > General Gaming Forums > The Playground

Notices

The Playground For posts about any games we don't have specific forums for, for general threads discussing games and for threads encompassing multiple games we cover in our other forums. Please add a tag to each new thread title that will identify your gaming platform if other than PC. Example tags: (PS3), (PSP), (X360), etc.

PLEASE SUPPORT SORCERER'S PLACE BY BUYING FROM OUR NEW SHOP!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Sun, 26th Aug '07, 6:07am   #51
JT
Gems: 11/31
Latest gem: Bloodstone

 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 435
Like: 2
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 1,417
Level: 12
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
JT is on a distinguished road

Kmonster, I never knew that about DQK. I actually loaded the game just to prove it to myself. What a weird bug.

The turning bonus isn't much good past CoK. There are too many "turning doesn't work" areas in DKK, and hardly any undead in DQK. Furthermore, the bonus becomes irrelevant when your cleric reaches level 14, because the turn undead table doesn't go past that.
JT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 3rd May '12, 12:16am   #52
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

So, while I plan to tackle Pools of Darkness eventually, Champions of Krynn is what I'm actually playing right now.

Does anyone know for certain how the kenders' YELL works? I read it give -1 to hit but +1 to damage, and the enemies will target the kender unless someone else is already in melee range. Can someone confirm these stats?

What is your opinion on paladins in the Krynn series? Are they redundant compared to knights? I suppose they still have their PfE '10 aura going for them.

I don't understand the love for F/M/Cs. The synergy seems poor. Every turn, you have to choose between casting or attacking. A C/M will progress faster and have better spells, while F/Ms and R/Cs are better multi-classes for straight fighting.

I do like F/M/Ts, however. Backstabbing works great with a fighter's THAC0 and extra attacks, and you can buff yourself further with mage spells. Generally I've found that you want to have two thieves if you want to go for frequent backstabs; three would be overkill, as every thief also needs an assistant character to set up the backstab. With two, the frequency of getting at least one of them into a good BS position is much higher. I recommend a kender C of KJ/T and a Qualinesti F/RR/T if you want to seriously use backstabs.

JT's note on turning is interesting. I made a human cleric of Majere for Champions, but if what he says is true, I'll replace him for DKK.

Here's what I would propose for a good party:

Human Knight
Silvanesti Ranger/Cleric of Mishakal (Mish. makes casting CLW in combat much more useful)
Human White Robe Mage
Qualinesti Fighter/Red Robe Mage/Thief
Kender Cleric of Kiri-Jolith/Thief (+1 THAC0 helps with backstabs)

Last character would be either a F/M or a Paladin.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, 6th May '12, 3:17pm   #53
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

When running the Krynn series, I have 2 rules that I must follow... since it is a Dragonlance setting, I always include(at least..) one Knight and a Kender, for RPG reasons only(obviously...).

A standard party for me is...

Human Knight
Human Knight
Spoiler!

Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric(Mishakal)
Kender Cleric(Kiri-Jolith)/Thief or Fighter/Thief(sometimes straight Thief as well. It does allow the character to reach maximum backstab capability the quickly. never underestimate the backstab!)
Human White Robe Mage
Half-Elf(or Qual Elf) Fighter/Red Robe Mage

My knights are the frontline along with the R/C for killing giant-types. The mages are for hasting, enemy disabling and bombardment. The Kender yells from within the middle of the group(except againt dragons!). The Krynn series to me is unlike the Pools series as you really don't need to dual class to beat the series easily. Which allows for trying out the various races and class type combos.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 7th May '12, 1:17am   #54
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

Half-elves are capped too early to use them in DKoK or DQoK.

Paladins are inferior to knights. In DQoK they'll level faster and have more hitpoints than knights (at 11,200,000 XP 138-219 vs 72-180 with 18 con) but I consider the extra spells more useful.

Rangers or ranger/clerics are inferior to fighters or fighter/clerics in the first two games. They level more slowly and at the level caps they have less HP and attacks.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 7th May '12, 6:57pm   #55
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmonster View Post
Half-elves are capped too early to use them in DKoK or DQoK.

Rangers or ranger/clerics are inferior to fighters or fighter/clerics in the first two games. They level more slowly and at the level caps they have less HP and attacks.
Except against Gaint-classed monsters. I like that specialization in these games. There are enough giant-classed monsters to make them useful.

The level-cap on Half-Elves is annoying.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 7th May '12, 10:06pm   #56
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

Only very few of the larger than human sized monsters take extra damage from rangers. There are barely any of them in the Krynn series, especially not in difficult battles.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 7th May '12, 11:04pm   #57
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Not true. There are plenty of Ogres and Giants in these games. Plus, you are forgetting about random battles when wandering the overland map. Which is a great way to gather up some extra XP......Ranger-hater

Though I will admit, Rangers were really made for the Secret of The Silver Blades.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 10th May '12, 3:26am   #58
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

Yeah, now that you mention it, rangers really get shafted on their extra attacks by the level limits in the first two games.

For a full playthrough though, the unlimited advancement of an elven ranger/cleric easily beats a fighter/cleric. And even before then, they do bring their unique druid spells to the table in DKK. I'm not worried of losing out.

For the paladin, I do think he brings enough to the table to warrant taking over a second knight. But I'm pretty sure having a fighter/red robe mage as a third mage instead easily provides the most firepower, between the other members of the party I described earlier.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 10th May '12, 12:43pm   #59
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

I agree about a qualinesti fighter/red mage adding the more firepower than an additional knight or paladin. But with your party composition I'd rather take a cleric/red mage to get access to level 7 cleric spells at level 12 during DKoK.

There's a bug in DQoK, each time your ranger/cleric trains for a ranger level his XP is set back as if he just trained for the same level as cleric, it doesn't matter in the beginning (reaching ranger level 17 won't be delayed much) but you loose a lot of XP later.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 10th May '12, 3:59pm   #60
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It could be said that once you hit the later 2 games, the more Area of effect damgage spells and Haste do make the game much easier. MCs rule the day. But I always found that to be less fun than utilizing classes from the setting. Knights of Solamnia are awesome!
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 10th May '12, 6:01pm   #61
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmonster View Post
There's a bug in DQoK, each time your ranger/cleric trains for a ranger level his XP is set back as if he just trained for the same level as cleric, it doesn't matter in the beginning (reaching ranger level 17 won't be delayed much) but you loose a lot of XP later.
I'll keep an eye out for that, but I have a character editor, so bugs like that should be easy to take care of.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, 10th May '12, 10:42pm   #62
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Mad Weirwood,

Are you running on XP, Vista or Win 7? The GBC notes that it is not tried and tested on Vista or 7.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, 11th May '12, 11:03am   #63
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

I'm still using XP.

One more thing I meant to ask about: What's the appeal of F/M/Cs?

They're certainly decent characters early on, and I assume there's enough XP in the first two games to reach the level cap even with a triple class. Is that the reason? But once you're in DQK, isn't the triple class a significant hindrance in how fast you get caster levels?

F/M/Ts I understand. The appeal comes from backstabbing, for which the fighter levels definitely help, while the mage levels ensure you can do plenty of useful stuff when you don't have a backstab opportunity. I consider a F/M/T to be better than either a M/T or a F/T.

But at high levels, a straight C/M is a much better caster than a F/M/C, while already being able to cast in armor. And you'll have so many spells that you'll almost never want to simply attack, which makes the fighter levels obsolete.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, 11th May '12, 3:48pm   #64
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

They are support characters. Which is useful in CoK and DKoK. F/M/C gets more HPs(but not that much more) and more AT/round than a M/C. Basically more staying power in Melee if needed. They just level much slower. I think they are a good support character, but for DQoK, they become obselete as most want 6 powerhouses. Not bad per say, but most other builds become more powerful.

BUT, I don't think that DQoK is that tough a game compared to PoD that you will need 6 powerhouses. So, A F/M/C won't ruin your party either. You'll form your own opinion once you conquer Dark Queen. When that happens let us know what you think!
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, 11th May '12, 5:35pm   #65
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

The idea behind fighter/mage/cleric in DQoK is that fighters are almost maxed out at level 13 and it would be a waste not multiclassing them. Clerics don't benefit much from very high levels either, at level 12 or 16 they already have access to level 7 spells and can even resurrect party members or restore drained levels, casting level is quite unimportant for them. Mages need only level 15 to cast level 9 spells.
At 4,500,003 XP which is quite early in DQoK (even right at or very close to the start with imported characters) a neutral C/F/M is maxed as fighter and has access to all cleric and red mage spells, a good C/F/M needs 6,000,003 XP to gain access to all cleric spells which is still reachable long before the end, the feeling of accomplishment is better if you can't do everything right at the start already.

The main benefit of multiclassing is that you get the first 8-11 levels for the price of one, so why not get this benefit twice, for adding a second class you already give away 50 percent from the XP your first class gets, adding the third will only cost additional 16,666... percent of the XP you'd gain in this class as pure class character. Starting with imported characters with far more XP evens out the loss somewhat. Triple classes can stay away from training longer and don't have to fear loosing XP after importing.
You can grind as many XP you want during the game but you can't add a third class to your characters during the game.

Adding fighter levels to C/M more than doubles the attack power when fighting in locations where magic doesn't work or versus monsters immune to magic which usually appear in the hardest battles and a lot in DKoK, 18/.. strength also makes carrying stuff more comfortable.
Adding cleric levels to F/M will add the special deity bonuses (like +1 to hit) and more healing which can be very useful in locations where you cannot rest, you also get another character who can fix things up if he's the last one standing after the battle.
Adding mage levels to F/C grants a lot of additional options and powerful spells.

In the beginning of CoK F/M/Cs are extremely powerful, they sweep through monsters, put them to sleep, cast hold person, heal the party and get lots of cleric bonus spells.
As long as the XP requirements roughly double with each level the triple class is often the same level as a double class.


For those reasons I had 3 F/M/Cs in my party.

In CoK they didn't even get close to level 8, even single class casters could have been exported without loosing XP.
It was similar in DKoK, none of them reached the highest level. Single classes would have been capped too early, but the XP gained would have been perfect for double classes.
Double classes wouldn't have maxed out in DQoK either.
Late in DQoK I started regretting not having double classes, when casting fireballs at your enemies is almost the only thing you do in battle only mage levels count. More mage levels mean more fireball damage, a higher chance to overcome magic resistance and therefore faster battles.
So I had to use more strategy fighting black robe mages and spell resistant draconians instead of simply fireballing them into oblivion.
But after gaining some more levels they succeeded anyway.


If I'd replay the games I'd replace the F/RM/C with a cleric/red mage and one of the F/WM/Cs with a fighter/white mage to make more use of the high casting levels the games offers, although the triple classes were probably more powerful most of the time during the trilogy and at the end.

Likes (1):
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, 16th May '12, 1:16am   #66
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

See, in my experience, one or two clerics are all you need, especially since the knight can also cast when necessary in the second and third games.

From that point of view, the cleric part of an F/M/C would only drag down the characters mage levels, compared to a F/M.

I do like having one C/M. As I said, he's pretty much a full time caster. I don't remember any no-magic zones in DQK, but it's a long time. Even when you're fighting magic-immune enemies, you can buff and heal your party with your cleric spells. But for a full-time caster, the fighter part is extraneous.

Admittedly, it gives you access to bows and exceptional strength, so there's that.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 21st May '12, 4:21pm   #67
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Trying an All-Kender party. VERY challengling. No Mages and 16 Str max. Classes are below. I will be entering the tomb of Sir Dargaard. Lots of Hold Persons and Silence 15' Radius spells going on. Eagerly awaiting the Gauntlets of Ogre Power & the Girdle of Giant Strength(Str-21). It will give me two kick-ass warriors at least. Not sure if this party is viable in DKoK or DQoK, but if I can beat the end-game battles then I think I will continue on with the saga. The Sir LeBaum fight, the Myrtani fight and the 3 Red Dragon fight in Neraka are tougher battles than most of the DKoK regular/non-boss battles. DQoK is another story though....

Fighter
Fighter
Fighter/Cleric
Fighter/Cleric
Fighter/Cleric
Fighter/Thief
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 21st May '12, 5:53pm   #68
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

A whole party immune to death knight fear, this will be an easy game.

I'd take more clerics and less fighters. Kenders are limited to level 5 as fighters but level 8 (12 in DKoK) as clerics.

A level 5 fighter has up to 70 HP and a thac0 of 16, a level 8 cleric of Kiri-Jolith has up to 90 HP, a thac0 of 15 and far better saving throws, both get 1 attack per round.
The only fighter advantage is a broader weapon choice but a fighter/cleric can use the same weapons, hits better, gets more hitpoints (more damage with the dragonlance) and can cast many spells.

For trying both CoK and DKoK with the same party I'd go with

cleric of Majere
cleric of Sirrion
cleric of Kiri-Jolith/thief
cleric of Kiri-Jolith/thief
cleric of Kiri-Jolith/ranger
cleric of Shinare/fighter

If you're going to play CoK only replace the cleric of Sirrion with a cleric of Kiri-Jolith and the cleric of Shinare/fighter with a second cleric of Kiri-Jolith/ranger.

Last edited by kmonster; Tue, 22nd May '12 at 2:20pm. Reason: forgot that kenders can be rangers
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 21st May '12, 6:54pm   #69
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Good points. My thoughts were that the single-classed fighters would rise quickly in levels. Which would help compensate for the lack of magical firepower. At least early on. If I change up, I will make the fighters F/Cs instead.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, 21st May '12, 9:35pm   #70
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

It's worth keeping 1-2 clerics pure. You get more HP and level up faster than multiclassed with fighter, besides the hoopaks there are 2-3 magical maces or other cleric melee weapons you'll want to use (full damage versus death knights) and 1-2 characters can do without bows and use melee or slings instead.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, 22nd May '12, 1:45am   #71
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

Certainly a fun idea. With WIS 16, you can't get level 7 cleric spells, so you don't need to be neutral.

KJ cleric/thief is the best class when you take only a single kender, but for your party, you certainly want to mix things up. I'd recommend one Majere cleric for their turn undead bonus, and one Mishakal cleric for the super-charged CLW/CSW spells.

If the AJ is correct, for DKK your max cleric level will be 8. 12 for DQK. The table in the journal can be wrong, of course.

From the top of my head, I can't say which kender class would give you the best hp for COK and DKK. Maybe a ranger/KJ cleric? That would be the guy you want to carry the dragonlance. I do think you need a warrior class to use it.

Apart from that, I don't know if kender fighters bring anything to the table at all.
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, 22nd May '12, 2:17pm   #72
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

Kenders can reach cleric level 12 in DKoK, the AJ is wrong. There a no stat requirements in DKoK (unlike in DQoK) for memorizing high level spells, so you can have a kender cleric of neutrality with 16 wis casting level 6 and level 7 spells.

I forgot that kenders can be rangers. Ranger is better than fighter, 2 extra hitpoints and (although quite unimportant) bonuses versus certain monster types without disadvantages. It's still not worth having a pure class ranger but ranger/cleric of good is better than fighter/cleric of good.

A ranger/cleric of Kiri-Jolith is in fact the best kender you can get for using the dragonlance, with up to 81 HP in CoK and up to 89 HP in DKoK.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, 22nd May '12, 4:08pm   #73
Blades of Vanatar
Vanatar will rise again
 
Blades of Vanatar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,890
Like: 90
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 10,550
Level: 30
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Feeling OldGetting OnTrend SetterHappy Anniversary!BoM Experienced
Awards Project Eternity SP Immortalizer - For helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in Project Eternity!
Blades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond reputeBlades of Vanatar has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I didn't change my party, left it as is. Last night saw me through to the Citadels. i stopped there. Dragon battles are freaking tough with this party! Several reloads for each Dragon encounter. So are battles with many bozaks as magic is not a given to work against them. Without the DL I would stand no chance. Sir Lebaum was actually an easy battle with the MoD in hand. They key to the tough battles with Dragons is to spread your party out to the edges of the battlefield, while yelling with everyone not carrying a DL. Buff the DL wielder(which I have a fighter still carrying, so far so good...) as much as possible(Prayer, Bless, PfE, Resist Fire when applicable) and let him have at it. He still gets mauled in melee without a shield for extra protection. 70 or 81 or 89 HPs doesn't make a real difference, one hit usually kills. Will be different in the later games though.
__________________
"Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Blades of Vanatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, 23rd May '12, 12:46pm   #74
Mad Weirwood
Gems: 1/31
Latest gem: Turquoise

 

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22
Like: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vBActivity - Stats
XP: 529
Level: 8
vBActivity - Bars
Achievements Beginner Poster!New DeliveryHappy Anniversary!BoM ExperiencedI Survived a Month!
Mad Weirwood is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmonster View Post
It's still not worth having a pure class ranger but ranger/cleric of good is better than fighter/cleric of good.
I'm pretty sure a NG ranger can also be a neutral cleric, (Dwarf R/C of Reorx works,) so you can skip F/Cs entirely.

As a side note, can you tell me if I understand the Prayer spell correctly: Every PC surrounding the cleric at the time of casting will be buffed, while every enemy receives the debuff, right? So while it makes sense to cast it before combat, you can also get your cleric into the thick of it, and then use it against a bunch of monsters, right?
Mad Weirwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, 23rd May '12, 5:13pm   #75
kmonster
Gems: 24/31
Latest gem: Water Opal

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades of Vanatar View Post
They key to the tough battles with Dragons is to spread your party out to the edges of the battlefield, while yelling with everyone not carrying a DL.
So someone has finally found a way to benefit from Kender yell.

But I'm surprised that your other characters can't help much in the dragon battles. With gauntlets of ogre power and 2-handed sword +3 you should do 12-27 damage per hit for example and 2 attacks per round with magical bow and magical arrows should also be quite effective.
I made the observation that dragons tend to use their not so dangerous melee attacks instead of their deadly breath if you're standing next to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Weirwood View Post
I'm pretty sure a NG ranger can also be a neutral cleric, (Dwarf R/C of Reorx works,) so you can skip F/Cs entirely.
You're correct, you can have a neutral good cleric of neutrality, spell and level progression depend only on the deity. So there's no reason to have a F/C either.

The prayer spell just isn't powerful enough to spend a round during combat casting it.
kmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Sorcerer's Place is an independent project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of time and money on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 5:20pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.