King James (Non-Americans Tolerated) - Page 2

Blades of Vanatar · Mon, 9th Jul '12, 11:11pm

When the Heat lose, it is becuase they get dominated in the paint. Bosh is no full-time Center. Teams will beat on him and he will get hurt. That lineup will not win consistently. You need one big man who can afford to foul and be able to take fouls. Foul trouble kills an all offensive squad. When playing against such a fast/scoring lineup, (smart) teams will slow the pace(like a Spurs for ex.) and keeping trying to isolate a one-on-one against a star to put them in foul trouble. Once oyu grind them, then you start running. However, the lineup DMC suggests WILL be the fourth quarter lineup for the Heat if all are healthy in the playofs next year....

---------- Added 0 hours, 6 minutes and 29 seconds later... ----------

Orlando Woolridge was a big time scorer for a few years. O-Woolridge and Bernard King were two guys who never passed on a shot. Any shot. "Gunners".

Aldeth the Foppish Idiot · Tue, 10th Jul '12, 2:56pm

One of the things that always amazed me about basketball is the lack of parity. In my life there really have only been a few dominant teams in the league. It's a sport where the superstars tend to congregate in the major cities. Boston and LA are obvious examples. (In fact, LA is the only city in the US that lists their favorite sport as basketball - no doubt some of that has to do with them having two basketball teams and no football teams, but still...) There's a few really big basketball cities in the US, and that's where the stars go.

In addition to Boston and LA, Chicago and Detroit are big basketball towns, as is NYC, even though the Knicks haven't won a title in about 40 years. And it really hasn't changed that much since after they implemented the salary cap. The salary cap was instituted in the 98-99 season. Since that time, the Lakers have won 5 titles, the Spurs have won 4, and the Heat have won 2. Everyone else combined have won 3, two of which came from teams that have historically been powerhouses, the Celtics and Pistons. Only the Mavericks from last year really break that mold. (And this year they were pretty bad, and next year they'll probably be REALLY bad - Cuban must be ready to pull his hair out - the Mavs had a terrible offseason.)

Oh, and since you asked about the pre-salary cap era, I looked up the Bulls salary for the year before they put in the salary cap:

1 Michael Jordan $33,140,000
2 Toni Kukoc $4,560,000
3 Ron Harper $4,560,000
4 Dennis Rodman $4,500,000
5 Luc Longley $3,184,900
6 Scottie Pippen $2,775,000
7 Bill Wennington $1,800,000
8 Scott Burrell $1,430,000
9 Randy Brown $1,260,000
10 Dickey Simpkins $1,235,000
11 Robert Parish $1,150,000
12 Jason Caffey $850,920
13 Steve Kerr $750,000
14 David Vaughn $693,840
15 Keith Booth $597,600
16 Jud Buechler $500,000
17 Joe Kleine $272,250

Jordan made more than the rest of the team combined. Also shocking was that Pippen was on the last year of a six year deal, which had to be one of the biggest bargains in NBA history. I can't beleive he had a salary of under $3 million. To put Jordan's $33 million in perspective, no one has come close since. Kobe made $24 million last year, and KG had a $24 million salary two years ago. But Jordan's salary was so much bigger, and it was 14 years ago!

But the larger point is that the NBA is a dynasty league, and those dynasties are concentrated among a few teams - most notably the Celtics and Lakers have had multiple dynasties. And the other sports simply aren't. It's rare to see a back to back champion in the NFL. The Patiorts dynasty is now eight or nine years old. And when was the last time there were back to back champs in baseball or hockey? In baseball I think the last team to repeat was the Yankees dynasty of the 1990s. The NHL? I don't even know. I guess the Red Wings won back to back titles around the same time as the Yankees had thier last run. But the last true dynasty in hockey may very well be the Oilers.

dogsoldier · Sun, 26th Aug '12, 10:14pm

I'm ambivalent about James' supposed ego or public face. I frankly think that at this point, there is little the guy can do to overcome the opinions of his detractors. ("The Decision" was surely one of the worst ideas in pro sports, and the Heat have done him few favors in how they've marketed him since he's come to Miami. Of course, Miami themselves struggled with how to market a reigning MVP and probably the most important free-agent signing ever in the NBA. Those things being said, they don't matter anymore).

It shocks me when ex-players like Scottie Pippen say that LeBron is better than Jordan. I think Dwayne Wade has handled this question in a more thoughtful manner. A quick statistical laydown:

Jordan: 31.47 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.6 apg, 2.66 spg, 1.03 bpg. Had set career-highs with an 18-rebound game, a 17-assist game, a 10-steal game, a 6-block game, a 26-for-27 game from the free-throw line, and a 69-point game. By my count, had 33 50+ point games and 28 triple-doubles in his first 9 years (including play-offs). Averaged 32.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 8.0 apg, and 2.89 spg in the '88-89 season, where he also had 7 consecutive triple-doubles, which in my opinion is one of the most dominant seasons ever recorded. 3 season MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, selected All-NBA First Team 9 times, selected All-NBA First Team Defense 9 times, 3 Finals MVP selections, Rookie of the Year. Two gold medals.

James: 27.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, .8 bpg. Career-high "stat games" include a 19-rebound game, a 15-assist game, a 56-point game, a 7-steal game, and a couple of 5-block games. Had 8 50+ point games and 35 triple-doubles (including play-offs). 3 regular season MVPs, 6 All-NBA First Team selections, selected All-NBA First Team Defense 4 times, 1 Finals MVP selection, Rookie of the Year. Two gold medals.

To me, Michael Jordan had clearly accomplished more by this stage in his career than LeBron has, and furthermore, seemed more dominant (in terms of being first-team All-NBA and All-Defense every year). Jordan was by far a better defender (I personally think LeBron is a rather overrated defender). I'm not sure on what basis one could legitimately argue that LeBron is "better" than Jordan.

Each are different players, however, and the truly impressive thing about LeBron is he's still pretty young. He's only just reached his athletic potential, and when I watch him play, I think there is a lot of room yet for technical refinement in his skills (for instance, he can still be an awkward jump shooter at times).

Mon, 9th Jul '12, 11:11pm	#26
Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,560 Like: 38 Liked 42 Times in 30 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,794 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.93% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 103.38% Monthly Activity 107.78% Achievements Awards	When the Heat lose, it is becuase they get dominated in the paint. Bosh is no full-time Center. Teams will beat on him and he will get hurt. That lineup will not win consistently. You need one big man who can afford to foul and be able to take fouls. Foul trouble kills an all offensive squad. When playing against such a fast/scoring lineup, (smart) teams will slow the pace(like a Spurs for ex.) and keeping trying to isolate a one-on-one against a star to put them in foul trouble. Once oyu grind them, then you start running. However, the lineup DMC suggests WILL be the fourth quarter lineup for the Heat if all are healthy in the playofs next year.... ---------- Added 0 hours, 6 minutes and 29 seconds later... ---------- Orlando Woolridge was a big time scorer for a few years. O-Woolridge and Bernard King were two guys who never passed on a shot. Any shot. "Gunners".
	__________________ "Still round the corner there may wait, a new road, or a secret gate." - J.R.R. Tolkien

Tue, 10th Jul '12, 2:56pm	#27
Aldeth the Foppish Idiot SPS Account Holder Mod Reviewer Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Froggster Champion! Gold Miner Champion! Straw Game Champion! Tubin Champion! Worm Catcher Champion! Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD Posts: 12,324 Like: 26 Liked 47 Times in 40 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 30,031 Level: 46 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 88.77% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 138.68% Monthly Activity 104.08% Achievements	One of the things that always amazed me about basketball is the lack of parity. In my life there really have only been a few dominant teams in the league. It's a sport where the superstars tend to congregate in the major cities. Boston and LA are obvious examples. (In fact, LA is the only city in the US that lists their favorite sport as basketball - no doubt some of that has to do with them having two basketball teams and no football teams, but still...) There's a few really big basketball cities in the US, and that's where the stars go. In addition to Boston and LA, Chicago and Detroit are big basketball towns, as is NYC, even though the Knicks haven't won a title in about 40 years. And it really hasn't changed that much since after they implemented the salary cap. The salary cap was instituted in the 98-99 season. Since that time, the Lakers have won 5 titles, the Spurs have won 4, and the Heat have won 2. Everyone else combined have won 3, two of which came from teams that have historically been powerhouses, the Celtics and Pistons. Only the Mavericks from last year really break that mold. (And this year they were pretty bad, and next year they'll probably be REALLY bad - Cuban must be ready to pull his hair out - the Mavs had a terrible offseason.) Oh, and since you asked about the pre-salary cap era, I looked up the Bulls salary for the year before they put in the salary cap: 1 Michael Jordan $33,140,000 2 Toni Kukoc $4,560,000 3 Ron Harper $4,560,000 4 Dennis Rodman $4,500,000 5 Luc Longley $3,184,900 6 Scottie Pippen $2,775,000 7 Bill Wennington $1,800,000 8 Scott Burrell $1,430,000 9 Randy Brown $1,260,000 10 Dickey Simpkins $1,235,000 11 Robert Parish $1,150,000 12 Jason Caffey $850,920 13 Steve Kerr $750,000 14 David Vaughn $693,840 15 Keith Booth $597,600 16 Jud Buechler $500,000 17 Joe Kleine $272,250 Jordan made more than the rest of the team combined. Also shocking was that Pippen was on the last year of a six year deal, which had to be one of the biggest bargains in NBA history. I can't beleive he had a salary of under $3 million. To put Jordan's $33 million in perspective, no one has come close since. Kobe made $24 million last year, and KG had a $24 million salary two years ago. But Jordan's salary was so much bigger, and it was 14 years ago! But the larger point is that the NBA is a dynasty league, and those dynasties are concentrated among a few teams - most notably the Celtics and Lakers have had multiple dynasties. And the other sports simply aren't. It's rare to see a back to back champion in the NFL. The Patiorts dynasty is now eight or nine years old. And when was the last time there were back to back champs in baseball or hockey? In baseball I think the last team to repeat was the Yankees dynasty of the 1990s. The NHL? I don't even know. I guess the Red Wings won back to back titles around the same time as the Yankees had thier last run. But the last true dynasty in hockey may very well be the Oilers.
	__________________ "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain

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Sun, 26th Aug '12, 10:14pm	#28
dogsoldier Gems: 6/31 Latest gem: Jasper Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 182 Like: 12 Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 589 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 64.56% Daily Activity 3.53% Weekly Activity 12.61% Monthly Activity 39.17% Achievements	I'm ambivalent about James' supposed ego or public face. I frankly think that at this point, there is little the guy can do to overcome the opinions of his detractors. ("The Decision" was surely one of the worst ideas in pro sports, and the Heat have done him few favors in how they've marketed him since he's come to Miami. Of course, Miami themselves struggled with how to market a reigning MVP and probably the most important free-agent signing ever in the NBA. Those things being said, they don't matter anymore). It shocks me when ex-players like Scottie Pippen say that LeBron is better than Jordan. I think Dwayne Wade has handled this question in a more thoughtful manner. A quick statistical laydown: Jordan: 31.47 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.6 apg, 2.66 spg, 1.03 bpg. Had set career-highs with an 18-rebound game, a 17-assist game, a 10-steal game, a 6-block game, a 26-for-27 game from the free-throw line, and a 69-point game. By my count, had 33 50+ point games and 28 triple-doubles in his first 9 years (including play-offs). Averaged 32.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 8.0 apg, and 2.89 spg in the '88-89 season, where he also had 7 consecutive triple-doubles, which in my opinion is one of the most dominant seasons ever recorded. 3 season MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, selected All-NBA First Team 9 times, selected All-NBA First Team Defense 9 times, 3 Finals MVP selections, Rookie of the Year. Two gold medals. James: 27.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, .8 bpg. Career-high "stat games" include a 19-rebound game, a 15-assist game, a 56-point game, a 7-steal game, and a couple of 5-block games. Had 8 50+ point games and 35 triple-doubles (including play-offs). 3 regular season MVPs, 6 All-NBA First Team selections, selected All-NBA First Team Defense 4 times, 1 Finals MVP selection, Rookie of the Year. Two gold medals. To me, Michael Jordan had clearly accomplished more by this stage in his career than LeBron has, and furthermore, seemed more dominant (in terms of being first-team All-NBA and All-Defense every year). Jordan was by far a better defender (I personally think LeBron is a rather overrated defender). I'm not sure on what basis one could legitimately argue that LeBron is "better" than Jordan. Each are different players, however, and the truly impressive thing about LeBron is he's still pretty young. He's only just reached his athletic potential, and when I watch him play, I think there is a lot of room yet for technical refinement in his skills (for instance, he can still be an awkward jump shooter at times).