General Questions

Heisenberg · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:30pm

A few things I am trying to understand better.

1. What exactly does the weapon info mean? Such as Flail with something like 2D4 plus 1. What do you want? For example between a regular Flail and a Morning Star which has the better stats and why? My guess is Morning Star.

2. When is a good time for Minsc to use his Rage buff?

3. Do spells like Armor and Ghost Armor stack?

4. What exactly constitutes a "Turn"

5. Could someone help me understand "Saving Throws"? My understanding is its sort of a last ditch protection? Like it make a spell or weapon attack not work on you?

Blades of Vanatar · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

A few things I am trying to understand better.

1. What exactly does the weapon info mean? Such as Flail with something like 2D4 plus 1. What do you want? For example between a regular Flail and a Morning Star which has the better stats and why? My guess is Morning Star.

2. When is a good time for Minsc to use his Rage buff?

3. Do spells like Armor and Ghost Armor stack?

4. What exactly constitutes a "Turn"

5. Could someone help me understand "Saving Throws"? My understanding is its sort of a last ditch protection? Like it make a spell or weapon attack not work on you?

1 - 2D4+1 for flail is the base weapon damage. You will add Weapon Proficiency Bonuses, Strength Bonuses and Magic Weapon "+" bonuses to the damage total.

2 - I used it when I was tanking with Minsc, pretty much whenever he enterd melee against a tough melee opponent. I didn't waste it on Goblins. I used it against Trolls though...

3 - No.

4 - In P&P it's 10 rounds....

5 - They are a type of "resistance". Each class has a different ST table they follow. They are level dependant. Certain Races have ST bonuses as well. Basically they allow you to resist various types of magicks/poison. Read a spell description for Fireball in the manual. If you are in teh blast radius of a fireball cast by a 8th level Mage, you will take 8D6 damage. But if you make your Saving Throw versus Spells, you will take 8D6/2 damage.

Yoshimo's Heart · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:46pm

1. That is short hand for the dice used on the table top game. For instance 2d4+1 means to roll two d4 dice (look like triangles or caltrops) and add one to the resulting total which will give you a range of 3-9 points of damage.

Honestly the damage on an individual dice roll on damage dice isn't that big of a deal the more important question is what else does the weapon get from magic. For instance if you have a weapon that adds fire damage and one that just is a standard magic weapon the fire damage one may be the better choice, even if the weapon does less total damage on average, since that may allow you to kill trolls and pierce defenses like stone skin (stone skin prevents the physical damage but allows elemental damage like fire to get through making it very useful).

Generally speaking there is a lack of quality morning stars compared to the uber flail of the ages so generally you will be using a flail. Granted I think in BG2 they use the same proficiency in which case use the one with the better enchantment (highest plus such as +2 is better than +1) or the one with the better additional magic (such as the aforementioned fire damage) rather than worrying about whether it is specifically a flail or morning star.

2. Personally I say never. It seems to not posses the same immunities that the berserker fighter gets and it also make Minsc uncontrollable which is just a bad idea. I pretend it is not there.

3. No they overlap. One provides AC 6 the other AC 3 in which case ghost armor will be the one providing a bonus. Now various things stack with those spells. Generally it will be things that say "increase by X points" or show a +X to AC like rings of protection. Things that grant a static AC number (like bracers of armor) will not stack and only the best will apply.

4. A turn in D&D officially was 10 combat rounds which in BG2 is one minute if I recall correctly (real time). This is assuming you are referencing that specific use of the term "turn". So if you have a spell that says that it lasts for one turn then you can expect it to last 10 combat rounds and then it would end.

A round is about 6 seconds in BG2. In a round your character can make a certain number of attacks (generally one unless you equip bows, throw darts/daggers, wield two weapons, or are a warrior), move so far, and/or perform an action (use a thief skill or two, drink a potion, cast a spell, use a wand, etc).

Since there are 10 rounds in a turn you could cast a spell in round one, attack in round two, drink a potion in round three, attack for another 5 rounds, cast another spell, and then use a wand all in one turn (but remember that was 10 rounds). Turns feel like a long time.

5. Saving throws are a defense against most special attacks. For instance let us say you have a save against spells at 10. Let us then say you are attacked by a fire ball. when the fireball hits you make a save (which represents you diving for cover or otherwise trying to avoid the fireball). If the roll (done by the computer in BG2) was equal to or above your saving throw number (so if you roll a 10 or better on a D20 which is the standard die used for attacks and saving throws) in this example you successfully save and you enjoy a lessened effect (in this case it is half damage). Your same character is then attacked by a death spell and thus needs to make a death saving throw. Your death save is an 8. If you roll an 8 or better on a d20 then you live. If you roll a 7 or less you die.

Generally speaking saves do not apply to weapons and the like. Saves generally apply to things like spells, breath weapons, poison, mind attacks, and other special attacks.

Marceror · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:50pm

It's probably helpful to remember that BG is based off dungeons and dragons, which is a game of rolling dice. BG, too, rolls dice, albeit virtual dice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

A few things I am trying to understand better.

1. What exactly does the weapon info mean? Such as Flail with something like 2D4 plus 1. What do you want? For example between a regular Flail and a Morning Star which has the better stats and why? My guess is Morning Star.

This means that to calculate weapon damage, the game rolls 2 4-sided dice and then adds 1 to calculate weapon damage. So your weapon could do anywhere from 3 - 9 damage. If you have high strength you will do more damage based on your strength bonus.

Quote:

2. When is a good time for Minsc to use his Rage buff?

Rarely, if ever. He can potentially attack your party members, which isn't good. About the only good time to use it is when Minsc is completely alone, but since you have your whole party with you, that is something that should happen rarely, if ever.

Quote:

3. Do spells like Armor and Ghost Armor stack?

Generally speaking armor spells that grant a bonus to AC will not stack... you will simply achieve the better value of the available armor spells (or physical armor, for that matter). That said, a shield bonus does stack with an armor bonus, so don't be afraid to try some different combos to see what works. It's not the most intuitive system, I will grant you.

Quote:

4. What exactly constitutes a "Turn"

A turn is 10 rounds. A round is 6 seconds.

Quote:

5. Could someone help me understand "Saving Throws"? My understanding is its sort of a last ditch protection? Like it make a spell or weapon attack not work on you?

Many situations in the game give you the opportunity to "save" against them, thus avoiding some or all of the effect. You can save against spells, traps, and the like. Depending on the nature of the effect you are saving against, there are different types of saves (e.g. save vs. spells, save vs. petrification, save vs. breath weapon, etc). The game rolls a D20 and adds your appropriate save value. If your save value + die roll is better than the difficulty level of the spell or effect you save against it.

If you are saving against spell damage, for example, you probably will take half the amount of damage that you otherwise would have. If you are saving against a Basilisk trying to petrify you, you simply won't be petrified, etc.

It takes a little getting used to, but that's the basic gist.

EDIT: I WAS TOO SLOW

Heisenberg · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 9:50pm

OK that makes sense. Just takes awhile to get used to all the rules and stats and everything. I am throwing myself into it though and I couldn't do it without this board. The better the community the smarter the community.

Quick question. Should I take Flail to level 3 or Two Weapon Style to level 3 on my next level up? My guess is to take Flail based on another post I read that said something of that nature until you get really dank weapons.

Blades of Vanatar · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:07pm

If you are a F/M, you cannot take Flail to ***. You are limited to ** for all weapons. The fighting styles have their own rules. You can only have *** in Two Weapon Fighting Style.

Heisenberg · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:11pm

Thank you sir.

I guess thats good in a round about way as now I can pick up another weapon after maxing Two Weapon Style. Any suggestions? I like the looks of both the Scmitar and the Katana which would be better?

Paracelsi · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:19pm

You can only allocate two points to flails being a multiclass fighter-mage in BG2, iirc. You can allocate three points to two-weapon fighting though.

About armor, there are two kinds of armor class-granting items in BG2 - those that set your AC to a lower (better) value and those that simply improve your AC. The former includes body armor, bracers, and armor spells like Armor and Ghost Armor. If you think about it these cannot stack since bottomline is that they simply change your base AC. Bonuses from the latter can stack (these can come from robes, shields, certain weapons, amulets, rings, spells like Improved Invisibility, etc).

A simple way to view the 2D6 syntax is 2 (first number) - 12 (first number x second number). While not very accurate as far as average damage goes, it does tell you what min/max value to expect.

Katanas and scimitars are good choices.

dmc · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:54pm

Well, as far as future proficiencies go, so far you have an edged weapon in swords and a blunt weapon in flails, the diversity of which is beneficial to you as some enemies resist one or the other type of damage.

You might want to think about a ranged weapon, which can be darts, long bow, short bow or crossbow for pure ranged weapons or dagger or axe if you want to look at something you could throw or use in close combat. My advice is wait until you get closer to the next one and see what kind of weapons you have that you are drooling over but unable to use effectively due to lack of proficiency.

T2Bruno · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 11:41pm

1. Damage dice are an interesting subject and others have done a good job of explaining. I will add, although they have the same max damage 2d4 is different than 1d8 -- 2d4 has a 2-8 range with an average of 5, while 1d8 has a 1-8 range with an average of 4.5. Not much difference but it adds up.

2. IIRC Minsc uses a barbarian rage which is different than the berserker rage that Korgan has:
Barbarian Rage -- while raged, +4 Constitution and Strength for 5 rounds, +2 AC penalty, +2 Save vs. Magic, Immune to Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Confusion, Level Drain.
Berserker Rage -- +2 bonus to hit and damage, -2 AC bonus, Immune to: Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Imprisonment, Stun, and Sleep, temporary 15 HP increase [taken away at end of rage - could cause death].

With a racial enemy of vampire it just makes sense to have him rage around ... well ... vampires. And yes, stay away until the rage is over -- although Keldorn can go near and talk him down. You can also have him rage to prevent the effects of charm, hold, fear, maze and confusion. Although there are items which will prevent the effects as well.

Weapon proficiencies: Katana is great for a mage if you have the bonus merchants (buy Dak'kon's Zerth Blade). Proficiency in short sword or scimitar will allow you to wield one of two weapons which increase the number of attacks from your main hand.

Blackthorne TA · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 1:40am

Not only is the average between 2D4 and 1D8 different, but the probability distribution of each outcome is different as well. You are twice as likely to get an 8 with 1D8 as with 2D4. You also happen to be twice as likely to get a 2 with 1D8 as with 2D4. You are most likely to get a 5 with 2D4; in fact you are twice as likely to get a 5 with 2D4 as with 1D8.

So the only time you'd want 1D8 over 2D4 is if you NEED to roll an 8 to overcome something like damage resistance.

Heisenberg · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 1:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmc

Well, as far as future proficiencies go, so far you have an edged weapon in swords and a blunt weapon in flails, the diversity of which is beneficial to you as some enemies resist one or the other type of damage.

You might want to think about a ranged weapon, which can be darts, long bow, short bow or crossbow for pure ranged weapons or dagger or axe if you want to look at something you could throw or use in close combat. My advice is wait until you get closer to the next one and see what kind of weapons you have that you are drooling over but unable to use effectively due to lack of proficiency.

I agree that Short Bow would be the practical choice and add great utility but I might go for Katana just for fun. Plus, the special fightermage weapon I can apparently buy at some point sounds great. Not positive yet though.

Tharlok · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 4:25am

Katana is overrated! Sure there is a great one (not including mods) but... There are better wepons out there (and more choices)! Building a character is fun - building a character towards a Katana +3 (with some stunning power) is... less fun. I've completed BGII on a number of occasions - I used that particalar Katana once! Sure it works but... There are a lot of great shortswords, longswords, axes and daggers out there. Btw - if you are going to ToB - the katana won't be as good as you think... Sure it will stun the occasional orc but... +3 weapons won't cut it in the long run. Unless you have a better one in your main hand.. then the Katana is great...

Yoshimo's Heart · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 4:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by T2Bruno

1. Damage dice are an interesting subject and others have done a good job of explaining. I will add, although they have the same max damage 2d4 is different than 1d8 -- 2d4 has a 2-8 range with an average of 5, while 1d8 has a 1-8 range with an average of 4.5. Not much difference but it adds up.

2. IIRC Minsc uses a barbarian rage which is different than the berserker rage that Korgan has:
Barbarian Rage -- while raged, +4 Constitution and Strength for 5 rounds, +2 AC penalty, +2 Save vs. Magic, Immune to Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Confusion, Level Drain.
Berserker Rage -- +2 bonus to hit and damage, -2 AC bonus, Immune to: Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Imprisonment, Stun, and Sleep, temporary 15 HP increase [taken away at end of rage - could cause death].

With a racial enemy of vampire it just makes sense to have him rage around ... well ... vampires. And yes, stay away until the rage is over -- although Keldorn can go near and talk him down. You can also have him rage to prevent the effects of charm, hold, fear, maze and confusion. Although there are items which will prevent the effects as well.

Weapon proficiencies: Katana is great for a mage if you have the bonus merchants (buy Dak'kon's Zerth Blade). Proficiency in short sword or scimitar will allow you to wield one of two weapons which increase the number of attacks from your main hand.

Are you sure he gets that barbarian rage? When I use his rage it seems to not give me all of that (as far as I can tell) and his attack allies part is unique to his rage and not the barbarian rage used by the barbarian class (and I think it uses a different icon on the character portrait as well). Then again I admit that I have not used the rage all that much considering that he would attack me so perhaps the immunities did not come up in my games.

Tharlok · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 5:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Thank you sir.

I guess thats good in a round about way as now I can pick up another weapon after maxing Two Weapon Style. Any suggestions? I like the looks of both the Scmitar and the Katana which would be better?

Just a quick question but.. how is in your party? While BGII offers a lot of great weapons, it pays off to spread out the different weapons... Katanas - it will work for your F/M and another guy... Minsc works best with two-handed swords (at least in the beginning). Bottom line - if you got three fighters who all wants a two-handed sword... Watch out for the most whiny guy EVER to be a valuble member of any team... And he's damn powerful!

SlickRCBD · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 11:27pm

Who is the "most whiny guy ever"? When you talk about whiny NPCs I think of Aerie. Although Skie was a far worse whiner in BG1.
Amoen is judemental, Korgain is bloodthirsty, Keldorn is the experienced soldier type, Minsc is rightous fury, Edwin is an elitist jerk, Haer'Dalis just seems interested in exploring the prime material plane and likes the PC, Jan cheerfully prattles on about turnips, Cernd I don't use much but didn't strike me as particularly whiny, and Yoshimo isn't whiny either.
Valygar might be who you mean, but I'm not so sure.

Tharlok · Sun, 26th Aug '12, 12:22am

Well maybe "whiny" wasn't the best word to describe Anomen... He does get on many peoples nerves though. But he is very useful and that is what matters.

Heisenberg · Sun, 26th Aug '12, 7:00pm

How do you make Amonen powerful? I have been using Chant, Sanctuary, Holy Power, Barkskin. I have him set up with a Mace and Shield for Tank. Minsc has two handed swords. Yoshimo has Katana. Nahilia has Short Sword and bow. Jaheeria has a club since thats where her best weapon prof was. I am using Long Swords (bought the roses one) and Flail (in process of making FoA). I figure my MC should be well set up after that.

two quick things.

Devlin Family Shield any good?

Nahilia just ran off to go to De arnise keep. She said I could follow her but she is gone. I will be able to meet back up with her right?

damedog · Sun, 26th Aug '12, 7:25pm

Holy power combined with Draw Upon Holy Might works wonders. Cast Holy Power first because if not it will decrease the strength you get from DUHM.

Delryn Family Shield iirc grants fire resistance. Shields aren't all that useful in BG2, but it has it's uses.

Yes, go to the Keep and she should be there.

Tharlok · Sun, 26th Aug '12, 9:06pm

Damedog gave you some great examples. Also the thing about Anomen is that he is a cleric that started out as a fighter. So he can get as much as ***** in any weapon (no other cleric can do this). There is also the possibilty for him to improve one of his stats (but that is a spolier I won't adress further right now). One thing to remember about all your characters is that thought they eventually will become insanly powerful, it takes some time to archieve this. Right now spells like chant, barkskin and others might not seem so great but as you gain levels you will have access to more damaging spell and great buffs.

While wizards have more offensive magic at their disposal, there is no need for your clerics to just focus on healing. A cleric is a very versatile character that can buff, heal, protect both himself and your party. If you are gonna include Imoen in your party you will have three arcane casters (four if you have Aerie). Which isn't a problem since there are a lot of scrolls out there. But since your F/M will be the one tanking it might be a good idea to give him spells like stoneskin and mirror image, while the others use more nuking and debuffing spells.

SlickRCBD · Tue, 28th Aug '12, 3:52am

I also find the spell Hold Person to be extremely useful even at epic levels. Silence is another powerful one in P&P, but this game likes to have a scripted, uninterpretable vocalize on far too many spellcasters for it to be worthwhile without metagaming of knowing when to use it and when it will be wasted on a forcespell script. The game ignores the "Only one contingency and one spell trigger" rule to nerf Invisibility (scripted true sight, although this is more in ToB than SoA) and Silence (scripted vocalize).
Domination can also be useful.

Those spells work just as well for pure clerics as a fighter/cleric. This is in addition to the other spells mentioned above.

Yoshimo's Heart · Tue, 28th Aug '12, 3:19pm

Just so you know unless you are using a mod that makes grandmastery better I would avoid putting 5 stars into anything. Two stars give you most of the benefit and so it would be better to have anomen put two stars into several key weapons (flail and hammer for example) and weapon styles (two weapon style since shields become mostly useless in ToB).

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:30pm	#1
Heisenberg Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Have lived in NY, Maine, Ohio and SC Posts: 130 Like: 112 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 228 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.38% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	General Questions A few things I am trying to understand better. 1. What exactly does the weapon info mean? Such as Flail with something like 2D4 plus 1. What do you want? For example between a regular Flail and a Morning Star which has the better stats and why? My guess is Morning Star. 2. When is a good time for Minsc to use his Rage buff? 3. Do spells like Armor and Ghost Armor stack? 4. What exactly constitutes a "Turn" 5. Could someone help me understand "Saving Throws"? My understanding is its sort of a last ditch protection? Like it make a spell or weapon attack not work on you?

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:07pm	#6
Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,550 Like: 36 Liked 41 Times in 29 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,773 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 53.29% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 152.61% Monthly Activity 54.46% Achievements Awards	If you are a F/M, you cannot take Flail to *. You are limited to for all weapons. The fighting styles have their own rules. You can only have *** in Two Weapon Fighting Style.
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Sat, 25th Aug '12, 1:40am	#11
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Sun, 26th Aug '12, 7:25pm	#19
damedog Gems: 12/31 Latest gem: Moonstone Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 450 Like: 6 Liked 16 Times in 16 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,169 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 72.09% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 14.98% Monthly Activity 4.27% Achievements	Holy power combined with Draw Upon Holy Might works wonders. Cast Holy Power first because if not it will decrease the strength you get from DUHM. Delryn Family Shield iirc grants fire resistance. Shields aren't all that useful in BG2, but it has it's uses. Yes, go to the Keep and she should be there.
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Fri, 24th Aug '12, 9:50pm	#5
Heisenberg Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Have lived in NY, Maine, Ohio and SC Posts: 130 Like: 112 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 228 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.38% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	OK that makes sense. Just takes awhile to get used to all the rules and stats and everything. I am throwing myself into it though and I couldn't do it without this board. The better the community the smarter the community. Quick question. Should I take Flail to level 3 or Two Weapon Style to level 3 on my next level up? My guess is to take Flail based on another post I read that said something of that nature until you get really dank weapons.

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:11pm	#7
Heisenberg Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Have lived in NY, Maine, Ohio and SC Posts: 130 Like: 112 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 228 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.38% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	Thank you sir. I guess thats good in a round about way as now I can pick up another weapon after maxing Two Weapon Style. Any suggestions? I like the looks of both the Scmitar and the Katana which would be better?

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 10:19pm	#8
Paracelsi Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: East Coast Posts: 596 Like: 5 Liked 31 Times in 30 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,380 Level: 12 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.24% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 4.27% Achievements Awards	You can only allocate two points to flails being a multiclass fighter-mage in BG2, iirc. You can allocate three points to two-weapon fighting though. About armor, there are two kinds of armor class-granting items in BG2 - those that set your AC to a lower (better) value and those that simply improve your AC. The former includes body armor, bracers, and armor spells like Armor and Ghost Armor. If you think about it these cannot stack since bottomline is that they simply change your base AC. Bonuses from the latter can stack (these can come from robes, shields, certain weapons, amulets, rings, spells like Improved Invisibility, etc). A simple way to view the 2D6 syntax is 2 (first number) - 12 (first number x second number). While not very accurate as far as average damage goes, it does tell you what min/max value to expect. Katanas and scimitars are good choices.

Sat, 25th Aug '12, 4:25am	#13
Tharlok Gems: 4/31 Latest gem: Sunstone Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Linkoping, Sweden Posts: 96 Like: 1 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 325 Level: 6 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 59.52% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	Katana is overrated! Sure there is a great one (not including mods) but... There are better wepons out there (and more choices)! Building a character is fun - building a character towards a Katana +3 (with some stunning power) is... less fun. I've completed BGII on a number of occasions - I used that particalar Katana once! Sure it works but... There are a lot of great shortswords, longswords, axes and daggers out there. Btw - if you are going to ToB - the katana won't be as good as you think... Sure it will stun the occasional orc but... +3 weapons won't cut it in the long run. Unless you have a better one in your main hand.. then the Katana is great...

Sat, 25th Aug '12, 11:27pm	#16
SlickRCBD Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2005 Location: in front of a computer Posts: 726 Like: 16 Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,542 Level: 16 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 49.64% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 12.36% Achievements	Who is the "most whiny guy ever"? When you talk about whiny NPCs I think of Aerie. Although Skie was a far worse whiner in BG1. Amoen is judemental, Korgain is bloodthirsty, Keldorn is the experienced soldier type, Minsc is rightous fury, Edwin is an elitist jerk, Haer'Dalis just seems interested in exploring the prime material plane and likes the PC, Jan cheerfully prattles on about turnips, Cernd I don't use much but didn't strike me as particularly whiny, and Yoshimo isn't whiny either. Valygar might be who you mean, but I'm not so sure.

Sun, 26th Aug '12, 7:00pm	#18
Heisenberg Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Have lived in NY, Maine, Ohio and SC Posts: 130 Like: 112 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 228 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.38% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	How do you make Amonen powerful? I have been using Chant, Sanctuary, Holy Power, Barkskin. I have him set up with a Mace and Shield for Tank. Minsc has two handed swords. Yoshimo has Katana. Nahilia has Short Sword and bow. Jaheeria has a club since thats where her best weapon prof was. I am using Long Swords (bought the roses one) and Flail (in process of making FoA). I figure my MC should be well set up after that. two quick things. Devlin Family Shield any good? Nahilia just ran off to go to De arnise keep. She said I could follow her but she is gone. I will be able to meet back up with her right?

Sun, 26th Aug '12, 9:06pm	#20
Tharlok Gems: 4/31 Latest gem: Sunstone Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Linkoping, Sweden Posts: 96 Like: 1 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 325 Level: 6 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 59.52% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	Damedog gave you some great examples. Also the thing about Anomen is that he is a cleric that started out as a fighter. So he can get as much as ***** in any weapon (no other cleric can do this). There is also the possibilty for him to improve one of his stats (but that is a spolier I won't adress further right now). One thing to remember about all your characters is that thought they eventually will become insanly powerful, it takes some time to archieve this. Right now spells like chant, barkskin and others might not seem so great but as you gain levels you will have access to more damaging spell and great buffs. While wizards have more offensive magic at their disposal, there is no need for your clerics to just focus on healing. A cleric is a very versatile character that can buff, heal, protect both himself and your party. If you are gonna include Imoen in your party you will have three arcane casters (four if you have Aerie). Which isn't a problem since there are a lot of scrolls out there. But since your F/M will be the one tanking it might be a good idea to give him spells like stoneskin and mirror image, while the others use more nuking and debuffing spells.

Tue, 28th Aug '12, 3:52am	#21
SlickRCBD Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2005 Location: in front of a computer Posts: 726 Like: 16 Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,542 Level: 16 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 49.64% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 12.36% Achievements	I also find the spell Hold Person to be extremely useful even at epic levels. Silence is another powerful one in P&P, but this game likes to have a scripted, uninterpretable vocalize on far too many spellcasters for it to be worthwhile without metagaming of knowing when to use it and when it will be wasted on a forcespell script. The game ignores the "Only one contingency and one spell trigger" rule to nerf Invisibility (scripted true sight, although this is more in ToB than SoA) and Silence (scripted vocalize). Domination can also be useful. Those spells work just as well for pure clerics as a fighter/cleric. This is in addition to the other spells mentioned above.

Tue, 28th Aug '12, 3:19pm	#22
Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 9/31 Latest gem: Iol Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 318 Like: 0 Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,021 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 4.89% Daily Activity 2.28% Weekly Activity 1.95% Monthly Activity 1.32% Achievements	Just so you know unless you are using a mod that makes grandmastery better I would avoid putting 5 stars into anything. Two stars give you most of the benefit and so it would be better to have anomen put two stars into several key weapons (flail and hammer for example) and weapon styles (two weapon style since shields become mostly useless in ToB).