A psycho in Norway - Page 6

Ragusa · Fri, 5th Aug '11, 1:49pm

I think he is not mad but that he acted with cold logic on his beliefs. He is not alone in his beliefs, obviously, just in acting logically on their premise. That is why I think dismissing him as mad is an all too convenient way to not having to reassess these beliefs for validity. Those conservatives who buy in on the threat supposedly being posed by 'World Islam', the 'Grand Islamic Horde', the 'Caliphate', are trying to get away cheap ignoring that.

When the German left wing terrorists of the RAF murdered or attempted to murder military people, politicians and industrialists to destroy 'the system' oppressing the working class, their ideological premise was very much key to understand the evil they were committing. They, too were not insane, but acted coldly and consequently on their beliefs. Germany's RAF could not have lasted as long without their support network (the semi-legal Rote Hilfe) of left wing sympathisers.

When the Nazis murdered the Jews and the Gypsies and scores of other people that was the amoral and immoral logical consequence of their monstrous ideology that saw them as not much more than vermin, feeding on the body of the 'Aryan race', that needed to be removed, one way or the other.

Breivik for one is of the opinion that Muslims have to be expelled from Europe ... his equivalent to the Beneš decrees (which he lauded) or perhaps the Madagascar Plan. His idea is to have a final solution to that pressing problem of Judaisation, err, sorry, Muslimisation.

Ideology is highly relevant here. It is highly relevant because it is the ideology that identifies the targets and the reasoning for attacking them. Anyone who dismisses Breivik, who killed left wing youths, because in his eyes the left wing destroys Norway, just as a madman, is kidding himself. Acting with cold logic on sets of political beliefs is merely the difference between an ordinary ideologue and the ideological extremist.

But that is only a gradual difference. The underlying ideological sets of beliefs are still and remain the foundation both of the ideologue and the ideological extremist. That also means that the people peddling the ideology cannot just easily divorce themselves from the extremists as aberrations. Ideological extremists are bred. They don't fall from the sky or wake up one morning with a blood thirst.

As America's COIN-istas like to say, "It Takes a Village to Counter an Insurgency", since insurgents live in the sea of the local population and live with, more depend on, their support, their approach is to win over the village to deny the insurgents this vital support (as opposed to just levelling the village, Hama style, which works too, but gives bad press and creates some lingering resentment among the survivors). Likewise, ideological extremists, Left and Right or Muslim, live 'in their ideological village'. As long as that village merely denies any involvement the insurgency will continue.

One only needs to look at the abortion violence. Does anyone here seriously think that as long as the practice is legal, anti abortion violence will end? It's just a matter of time till one other politically and religiously aggrieved nut takes a shot at another doctor or clinic. Inexplicable! An epidemic of lone wolfs!

NOT!!!

joacqin · Fri, 5th Aug '11, 2:09pm

Pretty much all the worst atrocities in the history of the world have been committed by people absolutely certain that they were doing something good. As Ragusa said, their deeds are the logical conclusion of their beliefs. Muslim terrorists are convinced that the west are out to get them, that we want to kill them and destroy their culture and they feel a need to defend and retaliate same with Breivik. It is like good Christians who try to convert people, it is the logical thing for them to do if they care about their fellow humans. If they don't show others the light they are doomed. This is why I feel kinda upset that Christians I encounter do not try harder to save my soul, guess I am not worth saving.

Ragusa · Fri, 5th Aug '11, 2:34pm

joa,
re: conversion - depends. The apparent compulsion to convert is common with, to put it broadly, Evangelicals, Jehova's witnesses and Mormons, and far less pronounced with more 'mainstream' (in the European context) protestant sects or Catholics.

8people · Fri, 5th Aug '11, 3:51pm

Whilst some branches of christianity take the conversion of their neighbours as a duty of each member there are just as many that believe the Holy Spirit will make Himself known to people in their time of need, and more still that follow discussion of faith is encouraged but God gave free will to follow Him as a gift and to interfere with that mandate would risk the balance of that gift.

The Shaman · Mon, 22nd Aug '11, 3:59pm

It might be a bit of a threadomancy, but today I saw this on the facade of NDK - one of Sofia's monuments and a building situated pretty much in the center of the capital.

For those of you who can't see it very well or are somehow unable to read Bulgarian (really, shame on you ignorant people), it reads "Eternal glory to Brejvik's feat". At first, I almost didn't believe my eyes, but there you go - some ******* didn't just approve of what that man did, but was impressed enough to waste his time and some black paint defacing an iconic landmark right in the middle of Sofia.

T2Bruno · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:03pm

More than a bit of threadomancy....

Twenty-one years ... that's all for killing 77 people. In the US he would have been given death or 77 consecutive life sentences -- either way it ensures he would never get out into society again.

To me, this is an incredibly lenient sentence. If you get 21 years for one or 77 murders why would a criminal ever leave witnesses? He would have nothing to gain by leaving witnesses alive and everything to lose.

Blades of Vanatar · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:53pm

I read this on NBC . The law in Norway allows them to extend the sentence beyond 21 yrs if they feel he is dangerous and the experts say he will never get out... hopefully that attitude toward this madman sticks.

Barmy Army · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by T2Bruno

More than a bit of threadomancy....

Twenty-one years ... that's all for killing 77 people. In the US he would have been given death or 77 consecutive life sentences -- either way it ensures he would never get out into society again.

To me, this is an incredibly lenient sentence. If you get 21 years for one or 77 murders why would a criminal ever leave witnesses? He would have nothing to gain by leaving witnesses alive and everything to lose.

Well, the death sentence is just wrong on more than one level, and this guy will never leave prison. I think Norwegian law states 21 years is the maximum term in 1 sentence, but in occasionw where the prisoner is considered a danger, it just gets extended pretty much indefinitely. In Breiviks case; he will never get out.

Rawgrim · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:33pm

21 years is the maximum up here, yes. But we have something called "forvaring", wich means after 21 years, if they still belive he is a danger (wich he is), he can be held longer. So its more or less a probation hearing, or something like that, wich he will never win.

joacqin · Fri, 24th Aug '12, 11:16pm

What is the point of sentencing someone to thousands of years of prison time? Breivik got the harshest possible sentence allowed under Norwegian law. In a way even harsher than the hundreds or thousands of years he would have gotten in the US(or death in the states that is used). Even if those sentences are limitless in reality they do have a theoretical limit. This does not, 21 years in one go and as has been stated he will be evaluated after those years and they can tack on another 21 years and another indefinitely. As for it being lenient it could have been much worse.

Taluntain · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 12:05am

I saw footage of the nice 3-room "cell" he'll be able to enjoy in solitude, of course with full access to a computer, newspapers, TV, a private gym, etc. Basically, he'll live out the rest of his days in far more comfort than millions of Europeans who haven't committed any crimes whatsoever. But Norway's got a funny way of considering pampering its prisoners to be "justice". It's a small miracle that they haven't declared him insane and put him in a 5-star asylum.

Quote:

Ila prison decided not to release pictures of his bedroom to spare his privacy.

You just can't make this **** up... (source)

Rawgrim · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 12:14am

thats how all norwegian prisoncells are. Criminals gets treated way better than old people in resthomes etc.

Blackthorne TA · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 1:04am

I think Thomas Indreboe from that article must be a US expat!

Gaear · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 2:16am

While I of course have absolutely no sympathy for this guy, I can't say I like the "if we feel like it" sentence extensions, so in that sense I do prefer thousand year sentences over 21 years plus court-elective bonuses.

Also treating him well is just ridiculous. I understand being civilized and not torturing people, etc., but that's a far cry from granting all these modern creature comforts.

Aldeth the Foppish Idiot · Mon, 27th Aug '12, 2:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by joacqin

What is the point of sentencing someone to thousands of years of prison time?

The point is you get penalized for each crime you commit. I don't necessarily have a problem with a 21 year maximum sentence. But it should be up to 21 years for each person he killed. I agree with T2 that you risk upping the body count. If it's 21 years whether you kill 1 person, a dozen, or a hundred, as T2 said, why leave witnesses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taluntain

I saw footage of the nice 3-room "cell" he'll be able to enjoy in solitude, of course with full access to a computer, newspapers, TV, a private gym, etc. Basically, he'll live out the rest of his days in far more comfort than millions of Europeans who haven't committed any crimes whatsoever.

Mental note to self - if I ever decide to become a mass murderer, move to Norway and get citizenship there first.

Taluntain · Mon, 27th Aug '12, 4:59pm

He wouldn't have got much more than a slap on the wrist if he'd only killed one person. Pretty much the same as here, a few years at best before he'd be out on parole.

Wolfrick · Mon, 27th Aug '12, 10:55pm

Dont get so hung up on the conditions of Breiviks prison cell.Even if he live to be a hundred years or more,he will never see the outside of the prison again. The reason is simple enough,he must be kept there for his own (and anyone who might be near enough to be accidentally hit) safety. That and the fact no parole board will ever risk turning him loose

Taluntain · Tue, 28th Aug '12, 12:33am

It's anybody's guess whether that's true or not. Even before his 21 years are up, he'll have to be given exactly the same consideration as any other prisoner. So he only has to fake getting over his hatred in say the last 5 years of being incarcerated and they'll have no choice but to let him go. When you've got a system that's so lenient, getting around it shouldn't prove that difficult even for Breivik. So unless Norway changes its laws (even then it probably wouldn't apply to those already in prison), it's very likely that he'll be released in 15 years or sooner if he plays a convincing convert. At worst, I'd expect him to serve the full 21 years but no more than that.

Wolfrick · Sun, 9th Sep '12, 3:14pm

The sentence is now confirmed,Breivik got 21 years of "keeping". That means he will spend 21 years before being evaluated as still dangerous or not,another 5 years will be added then this will repeat itself until he is dead or to old/sick to be kept in prison. It does not mean he will be free but kept under guard even if he get to spend his last days in a hospital. Sidetracking a bit,new laws are underway to allow for longer sentences for terrorists,up to 30 years against the 21 years imprisonment being the normal maximum. Keeping is for those cases where a criminal is best kept under lock and key for a very long time.Unlike a normal sentence where it is common practise to serve between 66-75% of the sentence(not murderers) the prisoner have to stay in prison for the time the keeping lasts.normally 10 years minimum
ps. i spent 2 years in a Norwegian prison about 16 years ago and dont really want to return there...ever

The Shaman · Mon, 10th Sep '12, 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfrick

ps. i spent 2 years in a Norwegian prison about 16 years ago and dont really want to return there...ever

And the media here liked to talk how nice Norwegian prisons are. I guess it's always better to view them from the outside

.

Fri, 5th Aug '11, 1:49pm	#126
Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: ... this world, where reality beats satire ... Posts: 10,131 Like: 5 Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 25,508 Level: 43 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 92.91% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 2.13% Achievements	I think he is not mad but that he acted with cold logic on his beliefs. He is not alone in his beliefs, obviously, just in acting logically on their premise. That is why I think dismissing him as mad is an all too convenient way to not having to reassess these beliefs for validity. Those conservatives who buy in on the threat supposedly being posed by 'World Islam', the 'Grand Islamic Horde', the 'Caliphate', are trying to get away cheap ignoring that. When the German left wing terrorists of the RAF murdered or attempted to murder military people, politicians and industrialists to destroy 'the system' oppressing the working class, their ideological premise was very much key to understand the evil they were committing. They, too were not insane, but acted coldly and consequently on their beliefs. Germany's RAF could not have lasted as long without their support network (the semi-legal Rote Hilfe) of left wing sympathisers. When the Nazis murdered the Jews and the Gypsies and scores of other people that was the amoral and immoral logical consequence of their monstrous ideology that saw them as not much more than vermin, feeding on the body of the 'Aryan race', that needed to be removed, one way or the other. Breivik for one is of the opinion that Muslims have to be expelled from Europe ... his equivalent to the Beneš decrees (which he lauded) or perhaps the Madagascar Plan. His idea is to have a final solution to that pressing problem of Judaisation, err, sorry, Muslimisation. Ideology is highly relevant here. It is highly relevant because it is the ideology that identifies the targets and the reasoning for attacking them. Anyone who dismisses Breivik, who killed left wing youths, because in his eyes the left wing destroys Norway, just as a madman, is kidding himself. Acting with cold logic on sets of political beliefs is merely the difference between an ordinary ideologue and the ideological extremist. But that is only a gradual difference. The underlying ideological sets of beliefs are still and remain the foundation both of the ideologue and the ideological extremist. That also means that the people peddling the ideology cannot just easily divorce themselves from the extremists as aberrations. Ideological extremists are bred. They don't fall from the sky or wake up one morning with a blood thirst. As America's COIN-istas like to say, "It Takes a Village to Counter an Insurgency", since insurgents live in the sea of the local population and live with, more depend on, their support, their approach is to win over the village to deny the insurgents this vital support (as opposed to just levelling the village, Hama style, which works too, but gives bad press and creates some lingering resentment among the survivors). Likewise, ideological extremists, Left and Right or Muslim, live 'in their ideological village'. As long as that village merely denies any involvement the insurgency will continue. One only needs to look at the abortion violence. Does anyone here seriously think that as long as the practice is legal, anti abortion violence will end? It's just a matter of time till one other politically and religiously aggrieved nut takes a shot at another doctor or clinic. Inexplicable! An epidemic of lone wolfs! NOT!!!
	__________________ Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens Last edited by Ragusa; Fri, 5th Aug '11 at 10:55pm.

Fri, 5th Aug '11, 2:34pm	#128
Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: ... this world, where reality beats satire ... Posts: 10,131 Like: 5 Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 25,508 Level: 43 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 92.91% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 2.13% Achievements	joa, re: conversion - depends. The apparent compulsion to convert is common with, to put it broadly, Evangelicals, Jehova's witnesses and Mormons, and far less pronounced with more 'mainstream' (in the European context) protestant sects or Catholics.
	__________________ Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:03pm	#131
T2Bruno SPS Account Holder The only source of knowledge is experience Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago -- far west suburbs. Posts: 9,346 Like: 22 Liked 94 Times in 70 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 22,379 Level: 41 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 66.59% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 71.05% Monthly Activity 40.73% Achievements Awards	More than a bit of threadomancy.... Twenty-one years ... that's all for killing 77 people. In the US he would have been given death or 77 consecutive life sentences -- either way it ensures he would never get out into society again. To me, this is an incredibly lenient sentence. If you get 21 years for one or 77 murders why would a criminal ever leave witnesses? He would have nothing to gain by leaving witnesses alive and everything to lose.
	__________________ “I have little patience with scientists who take a board of wood, look for its thinnest part, and drill a great number of holes where drilling is easy.”

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 7:53pm	#132
Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,587 Like: 44 Liked 46 Times in 34 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,854 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 63.71% Daily Activity 46.36% Weekly Activity 23% Monthly Activity 30.8% Achievements Awards	I read this on NBC . The law in Norway allows them to extend the sentence beyond 21 yrs if they feel he is dangerous and the experts say he will never get out... hopefully that attitude toward this madman sticks.
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Sat, 25th Aug '12, 1:04am	#138
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Fri, 5th Aug '11, 2:09pm	#127
joacqin Confused Jerk Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Helsingborg, Sweden Posts: 6,052 Like: 8 Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 14,100 Level: 34 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.46% Daily Activity 46.36% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 8.75% Achievements Awards	Pretty much all the worst atrocities in the history of the world have been committed by people absolutely certain that they were doing something good. As Ragusa said, their deeds are the logical conclusion of their beliefs. Muslim terrorists are convinced that the west are out to get them, that we want to kill them and destroy their culture and they feel a need to defend and retaliate same with Breivik. It is like good Christians who try to convert people, it is the logical thing for them to do if they care about their fellow humans. If they don't show others the light they are doomed. This is why I feel kinda upset that Christians I encounter do not try harder to save my soul, guess I am not worth saving.

Fri, 5th Aug '11, 3:51pm	#129
8people SPS Account Holder 8 is just another way of looking at infinite Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chirofen Posts: 7,140 Blog Entries: 252 Like: 65 Liked 17 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,568 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 44.81% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	Whilst some branches of christianity take the conversion of their neighbours as a duty of each member there are just as many that believe the Holy Spirit will make Himself known to people in their time of need, and more still that follow discussion of faith is encouraged but God gave free will to follow Him as a gift and to interfere with that mandate would risk the balance of that gift.

Mon, 22nd Aug '11, 3:59pm	#130
The Shaman Gems: 28/31 Latest gem: Star Sapphire Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stara Zagora, Bulgaria Posts: 2,831 Blog Entries: 6 Like: 5 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 7,000 Level: 25 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.26% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	It might be a bit of a threadomancy, but today I saw this on the facade of NDK - one of Sofia's monuments and a building situated pretty much in the center of the capital. For those of you who can't see it very well or are somehow unable to read Bulgarian (really, shame on you ignorant people), it reads "Eternal glory to Brejvik's feat". At first, I almost didn't believe my eyes, but there you go - some ******* didn't just approve of what that man did, but was impressed enough to waste his time and some black paint defacing an iconic landmark right in the middle of Sofia.

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 8:33pm	#134
Rawgrim Gems: 21/31 Latest gem: Pearl Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 1,351 Like: 0 Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,340 Level: 18 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 58.84% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	21 years is the maximum up here, yes. But we have something called "forvaring", wich means after 21 years, if they still belive he is a danger (wich he is), he can be held longer. So its more or less a probation hearing, or something like that, wich he will never win.

Fri, 24th Aug '12, 11:16pm	#135
joacqin Confused Jerk Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Helsingborg, Sweden Posts: 6,052 Like: 8 Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 14,100 Level: 34 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.46% Daily Activity 46.36% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 8.75% Achievements Awards	What is the point of sentencing someone to thousands of years of prison time? Breivik got the harshest possible sentence allowed under Norwegian law. In a way even harsher than the hundreds or thousands of years he would have gotten in the US(or death in the states that is used). Even if those sentences are limitless in reality they do have a theoretical limit. This does not, 21 years in one go and as has been stated he will be evaluated after those years and they can tack on another 21 years and another indefinitely. As for it being lenient it could have been much worse.

Sat, 25th Aug '12, 12:14am	#137
Rawgrim Gems: 21/31 Latest gem: Pearl Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 1,351 Like: 0 Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,340 Level: 18 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 58.84% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	thats how all norwegian prisoncells are. Criminals gets treated way better than old people in resthomes etc.

Sat, 25th Aug '12, 2:16am	#139
Gaear SPS Account Holder Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,727 Like: 53 Liked 83 Times in 57 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,903 Level: 21 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 97.44% Daily Activity 134.66% Weekly Activity 41.9% Monthly Activity 55.06% Achievements Awards	While I of course have absolutely no sympathy for this guy, I can't say I like the "if we feel like it" sentence extensions, so in that sense I do prefer thousand year sentences over 21 years plus court-elective bonuses. Also treating him well is just ridiculous. I understand being civilized and not torturing people, etc., but that's a far cry from granting all these modern creature comforts.

Mon, 27th Aug '12, 4:59pm	#141
Taluntain SPS Account Holder Founder Resident Alpha and Omega Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cori Celesti Posts: 20,859 Blog Entries: 13 Like: 174 Liked 133 Times in 85 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 53,281 Level: 58 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 54.77% Daily Activity 222.96% Weekly Activity 67.11% Monthly Activity 48.45% Achievements Awards	He wouldn't have got much more than a slap on the wrist if he'd only killed one person. Pretty much the same as here, a few years at best before he'd be out on parole.
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Mon, 27th Aug '12, 10:55pm	#142
Wolfrick Gems: 1/31 Latest gem: Turquoise Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 7 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 86 Level: 3 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 15.5% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	Dont get so hung up on the conditions of Breiviks prison cell.Even if he live to be a hundred years or more,he will never see the outside of the prison again. The reason is simple enough,he must be kept there for his own (and anyone who might be near enough to be accidentally hit) safety. That and the fact no parole board will ever risk turning him loose

Tue, 28th Aug '12, 12:33am	#143
Taluntain SPS Account Holder Founder Resident Alpha and Omega Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cori Celesti Posts: 20,859 Blog Entries: 13 Like: 174 Liked 133 Times in 85 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 53,281 Level: 58 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 54.77% Daily Activity 222.96% Weekly Activity 67.11% Monthly Activity 48.45% Achievements Awards	It's anybody's guess whether that's true or not. Even before his 21 years are up, he'll have to be given exactly the same consideration as any other prisoner. So he only has to fake getting over his hatred in say the last 5 years of being incarcerated and they'll have no choice but to let him go. When you've got a system that's so lenient, getting around it shouldn't prove that difficult even for Breivik. So unless Norway changes its laws (even then it probably wouldn't apply to those already in prison), it's very likely that he'll be released in 15 years or sooner if he plays a convincing convert. At worst, I'd expect him to serve the full 21 years but no more than that.
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Sun, 9th Sep '12, 3:14pm	#144
Wolfrick Gems: 1/31 Latest gem: Turquoise Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 7 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 86 Level: 3 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 15.5% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 0.95% Monthly Activity 1.4% Achievements	The sentence is now confirmed,Breivik got 21 years of "keeping". That means he will spend 21 years before being evaluated as still dangerous or not,another 5 years will be added then this will repeat itself until he is dead or to old/sick to be kept in prison. It does not mean he will be free but kept under guard even if he get to spend his last days in a hospital. Sidetracking a bit,new laws are underway to allow for longer sentences for terrorists,up to 30 years against the 21 years imprisonment being the normal maximum. Keeping is for those cases where a criminal is best kept under lock and key for a very long time.Unlike a normal sentence where it is common practise to serve between 66-75% of the sentence(not murderers) the prisoner have to stay in prison for the time the keeping lasts.normally 10 years minimum ps. i spent 2 years in a Norwegian prison about 16 years ago and dont really want to return there...ever