Fukushima - Something to think about

Dice · Fri, 17th Aug '12, 8:19pm

I just read this

Blackthorne TA · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 6:43am

Quote:

It is no exaggeration to say that the fate of Japan and the whole world depends on No. 4 reactor.

A wild exaggeration. I doubt even the fate of the whole of Japan depends on it. Not to say that it would be a good thing, but people who think a release of radioactive material would be the end of anything need to get a grip.

Darion · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:46am

^ Maybe not an end to everything...but it would be a hell of a Bummer for all of mankind for sure!

The Great Snook · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 3:13pm

I wonder if this is how Mothra was created?

I always liked Mothra, but the tiny girls who controlled it always creeped me out.

Gaear · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 6:30pm

Mothra was not my favorite personally, mainly due to it's unlikely ability to remain aloft despite slow-moving wings and its massive size. The tiny girls were a bit creepy to me as well, but they were also irritating so that made them somewhat less creepy.

Blackthorne TA · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 7:04pm

Quote:

...but it would be a hell of a Bummer for all of mankind for sure!

Depends on what you mean by major bummer. If you mean in a touchy-feely kind of way, then sure. Otherwise not even close. Chernobyl was a major nuclear disaster that barely affected any of mankind as a whole.

Darion · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:09pm

I'm old enough to remember Chernobyl...and the time after it.
Here in Germany people were told to keep their windows closed for some periods. Depending on the weather or wind.
And how we were cautioned no to buy veggies and milk for some time and from a specific areas. Especially the kind of food that is known to absorb radiation like shrooms.

Not an expert on nuclear science, but we all could do with less irradiated soil and towns that are rendered inhabitable for many generations!

Anyway...so much for 'clean' nuclear energy!

Blackthorne TA · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:24pm

Of course. But again, we were talking about mankind as a whole; Chernobyl made little difference to mankind as a whole. And so would Fukushima even if this worst-case scenario were to happen. Fukushima is already a disaster for the area around it no question, but on the scale of the world it's a pretty small effect.

And besides much of what you described in Germany was a temporary inconvenience at best.

henkie · Sat, 18th Aug '12, 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackthorne TA

A wild exaggeration. I doubt even the fate of the whole of Japan depends on it. Not to say that it would be a good thing, but people who think a release of radioactive material would be the end of anything need to get a grip.

I concur. Chernobyl was not the end of the earth, or mankind, nor were the numerous nuclear tests that have happened in the past 60-70 years. A good vulcanic eruption can have a bigger ecological effect than this (though admittedly it will probably not be as long).

Darion · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 9:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by henkie

I concur. Chernobyl was not the end of the earth, or mankind, nor were the numerous nuclear tests that have happened in the past 60-70 years.

Some educated people in that field attribute the spiking Cancer-rates to the ridiculous number of Nuclear tests and what not's. There was this Video on Y-Tube that showed a graphical representation of thosetru the years. It's not hard to follow this idea once you see the vid.

And on a different note, what is 'mankind'?
Cuz the Children in the Ukraine don't seem unaffected. Quite contrary. Being born with deformations and other countless defects.

The part of 'mankind' that sits on the other side of the world of the affected area, can always shrug and say 'mankind' not affected.

But then again this is hairsplitting on my part....but then again, the attitude: that what doesn't 'affect all' is not that bad, is on of the prime reasons why people go along with some really nasty **** that is lacking sensus communis.

henkie · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 10:52am

My reaction (and BTA's) is on the statement that:

Quote:

It is no exaggeration to say that the fate of Japan and the whole world depends on No. 4 reactor.

When clearly the fate of the whole world does not depend on this.

Which is not to say that the effect is not devastating locally. For the people living close to Chernobyl it was definitely a disaster, as it is for people living relatively close to Fukushima. I'm not disagreeing with you there, Darion, just with the whole world part.

Blackthorne TA · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 7:49pm

Quote:

Cuz the Children in the Ukraine don't seem unaffected. Quite contrary. Being born with deformations and other countless defects.

What? Where did you get that? The additional radiation due to the release was far below teratogenic levels. According to UNSCEAR, in the worst affected areas the radiation dose between 1986-2005 was an additional 3/5 over the background radiation - which is around 50 mSieverts over the 20 years - and in the areas not as bad but considered contaminated the radiation dose was 1/5 additional. Which is like having a full-body CT scan once in those 20 years.

Darion · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 8:06pm

^

http://www.chernobyl-international.com

They speak of 10.000 children every year born with genetic defects and what not.

There is also the latest Fact-Sheet with information surrounding this issue!
DL PDF...

Like i said, I have no clue about all this nuclear Voodoo. Your explanation makes sense BT, but so does the the PDF-Sheet from Chernobyl International!

It seems fair to assume, that a radiological fallout in form of a NPP-GAU Is not issue taken lightly globaly.

And Fukushima has yet to reap the consequences!

Blackthorne TA · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 8:35pm

Heh. Chernobyl International is a charity organisation that relies on convincing you of a problem to get you to donate. Here's a link to the other side of the story from a nuclear advocacy group. Obviously they say no big deal. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

There are millions of children around the world born with genetic defects every year that have nothing to do with additional radiation dosage from Chernobyl.

Darion · Sun, 19th Aug '12, 9:01pm

Like you said.
Ever group represents one extreme of the spectrum.
The WNA will say Fukushima is no problem.
Others, like the charity group, will think it's the end of Life.
Anyway... since we will never truly know...it's good that we a least are aware of the truth being somewhere in the middle-

Aldeth the Foppish Idiot · Mon, 20th Aug '12, 4:35pm

I would think that there was much greater exposure to radiation in the 1940s-1950s, when they were detonating a few dozen atomic bombs in the south west US. I'm sure the Soviet Union was doing the same thing in unpopulated areas of Russia too over that time. While I do not know how much radiation is released from an atomic bomb as compared to something like Chernobyl or Fukushima, it's not like it was ONE atomic bomb. Both the US and USSR set off dozens in their testing programs.

Darion · Mon, 20th Aug '12, 5:01pm

You Tube Vid showing A-Bomb Detonations since 1945:

After a brief lull in the late 40's. The World Powers went berserk in the 60's with nukes and made the world glow.

A quite enlightening little Vid!

Sir Rechet · Sat, 25th Aug '12, 10:57pm

None of the man-made catastrophes have really been all that global.. yet. So that kinda foils the "fate of the whole world" part all by itself.

Now, stuff like Exxon Valdez, the recent spill at Gulf of Mexico and both Chernobyl and Fukushima are still catastrophes that were just plain unimaginable a few decades ago. But whenever the engineers come up with something bigger and stronger, the mere lingering possibility of it going totally haywire should give some pause. Especially when all you need for a global scale threat is just (a whole bunch of) used fuel to the "safe" reactors, not even the reactors themselves!

Fri, 17th Aug '12, 8:19pm	#1
Dice Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,487 Blog Entries: 35 Like: 38 Liked 54 Times in 32 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 11,427 Level: 31 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.06% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 16.1% Achievements	Fukushima - Something to think about I just read this
	__________________ Let the chips fall as they may - except for the ones that I catch and throw where I want them.

Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:46am	#3
Darion Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baldur's Gate Posts: 581 Like: 4 Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,653 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 65.79% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	^ Maybe not an end to everything...but it would be a hell of a Bummer for all of mankind for sure!
	__________________ "When in doubt, Nahals's Reckless Dweomer!"

Sat, 18th Aug '12, 3:13pm	#4
The Great Snook Gems: 30/31 Latest gem: King's Tears Join Date: May 2003 Location: West of Boston MA Posts: 3,653 Blog Entries: 15 Like: 20 Liked 67 Times in 36 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 11,360 Level: 31 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 47.23% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 21.8% Achievements	I wonder if this is how Mothra was created? I always liked Mothra, but the tiny girls who controlled it always creeped me out.
	__________________ You are the king of cop-outs. - Anon

Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:09pm	#7
Darion Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baldur's Gate Posts: 581 Like: 4 Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,653 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 65.79% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	I'm old enough to remember Chernobyl...and the time after it. Here in Germany people were told to keep their windows closed for some periods. Depending on the weather or wind. And how we were cautioned no to buy veggies and milk for some time and from a specific areas. Especially the kind of food that is known to absorb radiation like shrooms. Not an expert on nuclear science, but we all could do with less irradiated soil and towns that are rendered inhabitable for many generations! Anyway...so much for 'clean' nuclear energy!
	__________________ "When in doubt, Nahals's Reckless Dweomer!"

Sat, 18th Aug '12, 8:24pm	#8
Blackthorne TA SPS Account Holder Administrator Master in his Own Mind Attack of the Tweety Zombies Champion! Balloon Bomber Champion! Barrel Jumper Champion! Belter Champion! Birdy Champion! Blast the Enemy Champion! Bubbles Champion! Color Boxes Champion! Counterstrike Champion! Emergency Champion! Fishy Champion! Galagon 2004 Champion! Grand Slam Shredder Champion! Helicopter Champion! Home Run Champion! Jackhammer Rampage Champion! Micro Machines Champion! Moon Lander Champion! Odd World Champion! Pingu Sports! Champion! Sheep Dash Champion! Snake Champion! Space Rescue Champion! Ten Pin Bowling Champion! The Viking Champion! Tiny Pinball Champion! Reaction Game Champion! Wilie Coytes Rocket Factory Champion! Storm The House Champion! aim and fire Champion! Batting Champ Champion! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Pedro, CA, USA Posts: 9,746 Blog Entries: 18 Like: 24 Liked 48 Times in 34 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 22,053 Level: 41 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 41.8% Daily Activity 46.36% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 13.16% Achievements Awards	Of course. But again, we were talking about mankind as a whole; Chernobyl made little difference to mankind as a whole. And so would Fukushima even if this worst-case scenario were to happen. Fukushima is already a disaster for the area around it no question, but on the scale of the world it's a pretty small effect. And besides much of what you described in Germany was a temporary inconvenience at best.
	__________________ Who put the rapist in therapist?

		Sorcerer's Place Home \| Chatrooms \| BoM Rules & FAQ Sorcerer's Place Stores: Games, Books, DVDs, Merchandise (buying via these links & our affiliated stores below helps support the site - thanks!)
Have you liked us yet?

Sat, 18th Aug '12, 6:30pm	#5
Gaear SPS Account Holder Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,724 Like: 52 Liked 82 Times in 56 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,897 Level: 21 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 96.24% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 23% Monthly Activity 50.65% Achievements Awards	Mothra was not my favorite personally, mainly due to it's unlikely ability to remain aloft despite slow-moving wings and its massive size. The tiny girls were a bit creepy to me as well, but they were also irritating so that made them somewhat less creepy.

Sun, 19th Aug '12, 8:06pm	#13
Darion Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baldur's Gate Posts: 581 Like: 4 Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,653 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 65.79% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	^ http://www.chernobyl-international.com They speak of 10.000 children every year born with genetic defects and what not. There is also the latest Fact-Sheet with information surrounding this issue! DL PDF... Like i said, I have no clue about all this nuclear Voodoo. Your explanation makes sense BT, but so does the the PDF-Sheet from Chernobyl International! It seems fair to assume, that a radiological fallout in form of a NPP-GAU Is not issue taken lightly globaly. And Fukushima has yet to reap the consequences!
	__________________ "When in doubt, Nahals's Reckless Dweomer!" Last edited by Darion; Sun, 19th Aug '12 at 8:22pm.

Sun, 19th Aug '12, 8:35pm	#14
Blackthorne TA SPS Account Holder Administrator Master in his Own Mind Attack of the Tweety Zombies Champion! Balloon Bomber Champion! Barrel Jumper Champion! Belter Champion! Birdy Champion! Blast the Enemy Champion! Bubbles Champion! Color Boxes Champion! Counterstrike Champion! Emergency Champion! Fishy Champion! Galagon 2004 Champion! Grand Slam Shredder Champion! Helicopter Champion! Home Run Champion! Jackhammer Rampage Champion! Micro Machines Champion! Moon Lander Champion! Odd World Champion! Pingu Sports! Champion! Sheep Dash Champion! Snake Champion! Space Rescue Champion! Ten Pin Bowling Champion! The Viking Champion! Tiny Pinball Champion! Reaction Game Champion! Wilie Coytes Rocket Factory Champion! Storm The House Champion! aim and fire Champion! Batting Champ Champion! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Pedro, CA, USA Posts: 9,746 Blog Entries: 18 Like: 24 Liked 48 Times in 34 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 22,053 Level: 41 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 41.8% Daily Activity 46.36% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 13.16% Achievements Awards	Heh. Chernobyl International is a charity organisation that relies on convincing you of a problem to get you to donate. Here's a link to the other side of the story from a nuclear advocacy group. Obviously they say no big deal. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. There are millions of children around the world born with genetic defects every year that have nothing to do with additional radiation dosage from Chernobyl.
	__________________ Who put the rapist in therapist?

Sun, 19th Aug '12, 9:01pm	#15
Darion Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baldur's Gate Posts: 581 Like: 4 Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,653 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 65.79% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	Like you said. Ever group represents one extreme of the spectrum. The WNA will say Fukushima is no problem. Others, like the charity group, will think it's the end of Life. Anyway... since we will never truly know...it's good that we a least are aware of the truth being somewhere in the middle-
	__________________ "When in doubt, Nahals's Reckless Dweomer!"

Mon, 20th Aug '12, 4:35pm	#16
Aldeth the Foppish Idiot SPS Account Holder Mod Reviewer Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Froggster Champion! Gold Miner Champion! Straw Game Champion! Tubin Champion! Worm Catcher Champion! Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD Posts: 12,373 Like: 29 Liked 50 Times in 42 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 30,148 Level: 46 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 96.07% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 26.15% Monthly Activity 24.92% Achievements	I would think that there was much greater exposure to radiation in the 1940s-1950s, when they were detonating a few dozen atomic bombs in the south west US. I'm sure the Soviet Union was doing the same thing in unpopulated areas of Russia too over that time. While I do not know how much radiation is released from an atomic bomb as compared to something like Chernobyl or Fukushima, it's not like it was ONE atomic bomb. Both the US and USSR set off dozens in their testing programs.
	__________________ "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain

Mon, 20th Aug '12, 5:01pm	#17
Darion Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baldur's Gate Posts: 581 Like: 4 Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,653 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 65.79% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 7.25% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	You Tube Vid showing A-Bomb Detonations since 1945: After a brief lull in the late 40's. The World Powers went berserk in the 60's with nukes and made the world glow. A quite enlightening little Vid!
	__________________ "When in doubt, Nahals's Reckless Dweomer!" Last edited by Taluntain; Mon, 20th Aug '12 at 7:29pm.

Sat, 25th Aug '12, 10:57pm	#18
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.76% Daily Activity 2.21% Weekly Activity 13.55% Monthly Activity 4.34% Achievements	None of the man-made catastrophes have really been all that global.. yet. So that kinda foils the "fate of the whole world" part all by itself. Now, stuff like Exxon Valdez, the recent spill at Gulf of Mexico and both Chernobyl and Fukushima are still catastrophes that were just plain unimaginable a few decades ago. But whenever the engineers come up with something bigger and stronger, the mere lingering possibility of it going totally haywire should give some pause. Especially when all you need for a global scale threat is just (a whole bunch of) used fuel to the "safe" reactors, not even the reactors themselves!