Bard instruments stink!

Klorox · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 7:17am

Why must they be put in my shield slot? I can't use a bow and an instrument at the same time... WEAK!

Silverstar · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:24pm

^Are you sure ALL bard items are used in shield slots? Maybe it was a speacial one? Do not know, never played bard in IWD but in IWD2 and BG2 they were used in quick-item slots? Take another one and try!

Colthrun · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:48pm

Actually, Klorox, it's pretty difficult to draw a bowstring while carrying a harp

Klorox · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:53pm

Yeah, and assuming you're strong enough, it's just as difficult to carry 16 suits of armor as it is 16 different scrolls.

Shrikant · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:57pm

Was it that str increasing lyre? IWD II too has such an item.
At any rate you can always change weapons while paused, so no big deal. If you don't find it to be too useful, get rid of it.

Colthrun · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 2:17pm

And people can go for days without going to the toilet....

The game has its mechanics and some are compatible with reality, while others are better if ignored. Consider that if you couldn't carry that much stuff, you would lose a fortune because of the truckloads of looted stuff you'd have to abandon.

However, if you didn't have any restrictions in the use of the off-hand, the game would be outrageously cheesy. How about having the ability to equip a shield and a bow?

Some instruments only provide special abilities while equipped (like the harp that increases the number of spells per level, IIRC). Some mage daggers provide extra spell slots, but must be equipped at all times. If you switch to a sling, for instance, you lose the learned spells in those slots.

You are trading off some options for the extra abilities the item gives you. It's then up to you to decide if the trade-off is acceptable or not.

Elvenblade · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 2:38pm

I think the only instrument that you have to have equipped in the shield slot is the one sold by the collector in Kuldahar. The harp that add bonus spells.

All other can be used in the quick item slot.

Silverstar · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 4:48pm

^Yes I now remember that item sold in Kuldahar, it is equipped as a shield, but all other bard items are quick-slot items, as I guessed.

raptor · Thu, 29th Sep '05, 11:16pm

That item can be quite anoying yes, my first game i bought it but never ifguredout how to use it, since my bard was equiped with a bow, there was no open slots to equip so i thought my bard could not use it at all

But yes, changing back and forth between that one is about as dumb as anything. yay, remove the item and put on the bow, and loose the prepared spells! that item always anoyed me.

kuemper · Fri, 30th Sep '05, 12:12am

Weeell, if you want some fun, you can equip the harp and use the strings to fire arrows. Missile weapon + extra spells!

Silverstar · Fri, 30th Sep '05, 12:18pm

^If only it was possible!

You sure have a great imagination!

Phase Demon · Sat, 1st Oct '05, 2:19am

Kuemper, that's an excellent idea for a bard specific item mod. The harp could act as a bow firing musical notes that could drive ennemies crazy and also fire arrows but with some sort of penalty.

Silverstar · Sat, 1st Oct '05, 12:28pm

^Can somone do something like this in a mod?

I think it is very different than what normal in game engine allows?

Phase Demon · Sat, 1st Oct '05, 9:05pm

I can do it if you wish. Do you know if there is any bow like BG2 Tasheron's or Gesen's Bow in IWD that can fire their own magical missiles? If there was this could be done in a matter of minutes. I could also use a returning axe/hammer/dagger. If nothing like that was possible in the IWD engine which I doubt, I promise to do it for BG and BG2.

Lynadin · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:10am

Phase Demon, there is no such bow in IWD, but there is a returning throwing axe (+2 i guess)

But it's a nice idea, there from Kuemper

Bahir the Red · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:33am

The shield and bow thingy has been discussed before. I think most people agreed that it would be possible to have a buckler strapped to your forearm while fireing the bow...

Silverstar · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 12:56pm

^But you can not use a buckler efficiently when using a bow, and it will surely give you hecks of penalties to aim for nothing!

Klorox · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 2:56pm

Why Silverstar? A Buckler is strapped to the forearm, so that you can still use that hand.

Silverstar · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 5:58pm

^Umm, has someone actually tried this in real life?

Then all archers throughout the history of the world must be fools or ignorants not to do this?

MrNexx · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 6:16pm

By the 3rd edition rules, you can use a buckler while using a bow or crossbow without penalty. Not necessarily right, but it's the rules.

kuemper · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:49pm

A buckler is usually small and strapped to the outside of the forearm. An archer (or someone using a bow) can have a buckler strapped to their shaft-pulling arm and not the string-drawing one. It doesn't seem correct, but it can be done. Probably the reason a buckler is a buckler and not a small shield.

raptor · Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 10:07pm

I know i have read it in one of the books, but anyone can use a buckler while using a bow, but then looses the armor bonus while using the bow. it did however work with dual wielding weapons.

I'll try to look it up sometime tomorrow.

Klorox · Mon, 3rd Oct '05, 2:00am

C'mon Silverstar, don't start bringing "real life" into these arguments.

I don't think there's any way "in real life" that someone can carry 16 sets of platemail at the same time.

raptor · Mon, 3rd Oct '05, 2:18pm

Quote:

Outside ? but thats the REAL WORLD!!!!!!!!

just making the harp equipable in pretty much any other slot woul dwork, amulet slot, belt slot, quick item, heck, even head slot...

Klorox · Tue, 4th Oct '05, 5:51pm

Thanks for letting me know the other instruments were quick item slots! That Horn that summons a few berserker warriors for me is sweet!

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:48pm	#3
Colthrun Walk first in the forest and last in the bog Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Posts: 1,856 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,205 Level: 20 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.11% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	Actually, Klorox, it's pretty difficult to draw a bowstring while carrying a harp
	__________________ All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:53pm	#4
Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 2,955 Like: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,225 Level: 28 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 81.98% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 47.78% Achievements	Yeah, and assuming you're strong enough, it's just as difficult to carry 16 suits of armor as it is 16 different scrolls.
	__________________ "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives." -- Jackie Robinson

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 2:17pm	#6
Colthrun Walk first in the forest and last in the bog Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Posts: 1,856 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,205 Level: 20 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.11% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	And people can go for days without going to the toilet.... The game has its mechanics and some are compatible with reality, while others are better if ignored. Consider that if you couldn't carry that much stuff, you would lose a fortune because of the truckloads of looted stuff you'd have to abandon. However, if you didn't have any restrictions in the use of the off-hand, the game would be outrageously cheesy. How about having the ability to equip a shield and a bow? Some instruments only provide special abilities while equipped (like the harp that increases the number of spells per level, IIRC). Some mage daggers provide extra spell slots, but must be equipped at all times. If you switch to a sling, for instance, you lose the learned spells in those slots. You are trading off some options for the extra abilities the item gives you. It's then up to you to decide if the trade-off is acceptable or not.
	__________________ All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 2:56pm	#18
Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 2,955 Like: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,225 Level: 28 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 81.98% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 47.78% Achievements	Why Silverstar? A Buckler is strapped to the forearm, so that you can still use that hand.
	__________________ "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives." -- Jackie Robinson

Mon, 3rd Oct '05, 2:00am	#23
Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 2,955 Like: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,225 Level: 28 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 81.98% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 47.78% Achievements	C'mon Silverstar, don't start bringing "real life" into these arguments. I don't think there's any way "in real life" that someone can carry 16 sets of platemail at the same time.
	__________________ "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives." -- Jackie Robinson

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Thu, 29th Sep '05, 7:17am	#1
Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 2,955 Like: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,225 Level: 28 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 81.98% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 47.78% Achievements	Why must they be put in my shield slot? I can't use a bow and an instrument at the same time... WEAK!

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:24pm	#2
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^Are you sure ALL bard items are used in shield slots? Maybe it was a speacial one? Do not know, never played bard in IWD but in IWD2 and BG2 they were used in quick-item slots? Take another one and try!

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 12:57pm	#5
Shrikant Gems: 27/31 Latest gem: Emerald Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bombay,India Posts: 2,615 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,875 Level: 23 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 75.63% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	Was it that str increasing lyre? IWD II too has such an item. At any rate you can always change weapons while paused, so no big deal. If you don't find it to be too useful, get rid of it.

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 2:38pm	#7
Elvenblade Gems: 14/31 Latest gem: Chrysoberyl Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hand of Seldarine Posts: 618 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,107 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 19.78% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	I think the only instrument that you have to have equipped in the shield slot is the one sold by the collector in Kuldahar. The harp that add bonus spells. All other can be used in the quick item slot.

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 4:48pm	#8
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^Yes I now remember that item sold in Kuldahar, it is equipped as a shield, but all other bard items are quick-slot items, as I guessed.

Thu, 29th Sep '05, 11:16pm	#9
raptor Gems: 16/31 Latest gem: Shandon Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Porsgrunn, Norway Posts: 808 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,995 Level: 14 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 83.96% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	That item can be quite anoying yes, my first game i bought it but never ifguredout how to use it, since my bard was equiped with a bow, there was no open slots to equip so i thought my bard could not use it at all But yes, changing back and forth between that one is about as dumb as anything. yay, remove the item and put on the bow, and loose the prepared spells! that item always anoyed me.

Fri, 30th Sep '05, 12:12am	#10
kuemper I'm gonna eat your soul! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Blood Wars Posts: 8,926 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,632 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.08% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	Weeell, if you want some fun, you can equip the harp and use the strings to fire arrows. Missile weapon + extra spells!

Fri, 30th Sep '05, 12:18pm	#11
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^If only it was possible! You sure have a great imagination!

Sat, 1st Oct '05, 2:19am	#12
Phase Demon Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Strasbourg Posts: 34 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 436 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 54.6% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	Kuemper, that's an excellent idea for a bard specific item mod. The harp could act as a bow firing musical notes that could drive ennemies crazy and also fire arrows but with some sort of penalty.

Sat, 1st Oct '05, 12:28pm	#13
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^Can somone do something like this in a mod? I think it is very different than what normal in game engine allows?

Sat, 1st Oct '05, 9:05pm	#14
Phase Demon Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Strasbourg Posts: 34 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 436 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 54.6% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	I can do it if you wish. Do you know if there is any bow like BG2 Tasheron's or Gesen's Bow in IWD that can fire their own magical missiles? If there was this could be done in a matter of minutes. I could also use a returning axe/hammer/dagger. If nothing like that was possible in the IWD engine which I doubt, I promise to do it for BG and BG2.

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:10am	#15
Lynadin Gems: 11/31 Latest gem: Bloodstone Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Helsingor, Denmark Posts: 417 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,179 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 76.68% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	Phase Demon, there is no such bow in IWD, but there is a returning throwing axe (+2 i guess) But it's a nice idea, there from Kuemper

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:33am	#16
Bahir the Red Gems: 18/31 Latest gem: Horn Coral Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 1,072 Like: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,789 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 18.32% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	The shield and bow thingy has been discussed before. I think most people agreed that it would be possible to have a buckler strapped to your forearm while fireing the bow...

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 12:56pm	#17
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^But you can not use a buckler efficiently when using a bow, and it will surely give you hecks of penalties to aim for nothing!

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 5:58pm	#19
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.82% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	^Umm, has someone actually tried this in real life? Then all archers throughout the history of the world must be fools or ignorants not to do this?

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 6:16pm	#20
MrNexx Gems: 7/31 Latest gem: Tchazar Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 237 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 825 Level: 10 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 5.41% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	By the 3rd edition rules, you can use a buckler while using a bow or crossbow without penalty. Not necessarily right, but it's the rules.

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 8:49pm	#21
kuemper I'm gonna eat your soul! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Blood Wars Posts: 8,926 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,632 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.08% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	A buckler is usually small and strapped to the outside of the forearm. An archer (or someone using a bow) can have a buckler strapped to their shaft-pulling arm and not the string-drawing one. It doesn't seem correct, but it can be done. Probably the reason a buckler is a buckler and not a small shield.

Sun, 2nd Oct '05, 10:07pm	#22
raptor Gems: 16/31 Latest gem: Shandon Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Porsgrunn, Norway Posts: 808 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,995 Level: 14 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 83.96% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 1.73% Achievements	I know i have read it in one of the books, but anyone can use a buckler while using a bow, but then looses the armor bonus while using the bow. it did however work with dual wielding weapons. I'll try to look it up sometime tomorrow.

Tue, 4th Oct '05, 5:51pm	#25
Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 2,955 Like: 4 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,225 Level: 28 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 81.98% Daily Activity 2.55% Weekly Activity 0.73% Monthly Activity 47.78% Achievements	Thanks for letting me know the other instruments were quick item slots! That Horn that summons a few berserker warriors for me is sweet!
	__________________ "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives." -- Jackie Robinson