What happened to Helm n the rest?

Rakanishu · Sat, 20th Jan '01, 5:37pm

Hmmm, I've bought the PHB and MM, but I can find no reference to the familiar names like Torm, Helm, etc. Instead there's a whole bunch like Corellon Lorhetian, Erythnul, Kurtulmak etc.

Does anybody know what's up with that?

P.S, I've read the descriptions for some of them, and I think the gods of the humanoids like Gruumsh, Kurtulmak and Maglubiyet etc have more character.

Divine Shadow · Sat, 20th Jan '01, 8:16pm

Thats because the new D&D is set in Greyhawk.

Sir Belisarius · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 12:58pm

Now that's ironic...When I first started playing D&D, we played in Greyhawk...Then a friend of mine started a campaign in the Forgotten Realms, and the BG games are in the Realms - So I have really gotten into it!

Now D&D is going back to Greyhawk, even though the setting has been neglected for the past 10 years or so...Does anyone know what brought this on?

Roghnaithe · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:34pm

Are you psitively sure it is set in Greyhawk? My understanding is they wanted people to start creating their own worlds again and just threw those deities in as a reference as well as the familiar deities.

Blackthorne TA · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:40pm

That's an interesting question... I've seen examples in which the authors describe PCs and situations in the new manuals, and IIRC they refer to Greyhawk...

Sir Belisarius · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:44pm

Did TSR/WoC own the rights to the Realms and the other "worlds?" Or did they just have permission to use them?

If the latter, that might explain it - Because Gygax originally created Greyhawk for D&D, and the others followed. Maybe the originators of the Realms, Krynn, et al...Retained their rights to their worlds, and WoC isn't allowed to use them?

Just wondering out loud...

Taluntain · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 6:44pm

Actually, the Forgotten Realms were created by Ed Greenwood, which is still with WoTC. So if anything is weird, then it's the fact that they're reverting back to Gygax's original stuff. But I suppose they bought the whole deal so it's all theirs to use...

Sir Belisarius · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 7:05pm

I wasn't sure whether or not TSR/WoC owned the rights to all the others...I figured they did.

Do they plan to continue with the Infinity Engine D&D games? Have you heard anything?

Taluntain · Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 10:23pm

Well after the expansion to BG2 is released, Infinity Engine will be abandoned.
No new games will be made with that engine by Bioware, that's certain.
They might sell the engine cheap to some other companies (if any will be willing to buy it), but I doubt it. If anyone else might still use it, it'd be Black Isle, but that's also highly unlikely since the project they're working on ATM uses a better engine already.

So in essence, after BG2 it's R.I.P. Infinity Engine.

Crawl · Wed, 24th Jan '01, 1:46am

That's a shame. The infinity engine was used while turning out the best looking role playing games I've seen yet. I hate to see it abandoned, especially if it's for the 3-D look of NWN. Nothing personal against NWN, more against 3-D look. For all the talk over the years about how real it looks, I just don't think that it looks better than some of the 2-D stuff. I really prefer the look of BG2 and HoW to the screenshots I've seen of NWN. Just a personal opinion, but the infinity engine is great. Hate to see it dropped.

Sir Belisarius · Wed, 24th Jan '01, 12:44pm

I definitely like the Infinity Engine...I think it still looks good despite its' age. First person is okay if you're only controlling your characters actions, but if you're running a group - like in BG/IWD, it's cumbersome.

Thu, 25th Jan '01, 4:38am

Personally, I never payed much attention to what the setting in DnD was. I use the gods like Corellon Larethian and Gruumsh and all the rest even Helm and Torm all together. I Just threw them all together into Forgotten Realms for my scenerios.

Vile · Sat, 10th Feb '01, 7:05am

I'll add my 2 cents to this conversation. I have also heard that the new D&D (so called 3rd) is not set in any special realm. They will, however be coming out with a forgotten realms campaign setting for D&D.

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Sat, 20th Jan '01, 5:37pm	#1
Rakanishu Gems: 12/31 Latest gem: Moonstone Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 454 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,626 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.68% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Hmmm, I've bought the PHB and MM, but I can find no reference to the familiar names like Torm, Helm, etc. Instead there's a whole bunch like Corellon Lorhetian, Erythnul, Kurtulmak etc. Does anybody know what's up with that? P.S, I've read the descriptions for some of them, and I think the gods of the humanoids like Gruumsh, Kurtulmak and Maglubiyet etc have more character.

Sat, 20th Jan '01, 8:16pm	#2
Divine Shadow Gems: 10/31 Latest gem: Zircon Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Cluster Posts: 385 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,458 Level: 12 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 93.22% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Thats because the new D&D is set in Greyhawk.

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 12:58pm	#3
Sir Belisarius SPS Account Holder Distinguished Member Treasurer Viconia's Boy Toy Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: If there is a bright center of the universe, I'm in the city it's farthest from! Posts: 4,257 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,509 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.47% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Now that's ironic...When I first started playing D&D, we played in Greyhawk...Then a friend of mine started a campaign in the Forgotten Realms, and the BG games are in the Realms - So I have really gotten into it! Now D&D is going back to Greyhawk, even though the setting has been neglected for the past 10 years or so...Does anyone know what brought this on?

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:34pm	#4
Roghnaithe Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 33 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 518 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 16.78% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Are you psitively sure it is set in Greyhawk? My understanding is they wanted people to start creating their own worlds again and just threw those deities in as a reference as well as the familiar deities.

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:40pm	#5
Blackthorne TA SPS Account Holder Administrator Master in his Own Mind Attack of the Tweety Zombies Champion! Balloon Bomber Champion! Barrel Jumper Champion! Belter Champion! Birdy Champion! Blast the Enemy Champion! Bubbles Champion! Color Boxes Champion! Counterstrike Champion! Emergency Champion! Fishy Champion! Galagon 2004 Champion! Grand Slam Shredder Champion! Helicopter Champion! Home Run Champion! Jackhammer Rampage Champion! Micro Machines Champion! Moon Lander Champion! Odd World Champion! Pingu Sports! Champion! Sheep Dash Champion! Snake Champion! Space Rescue Champion! Ten Pin Bowling Champion! The Viking Champion! Tiny Pinball Champion! Reaction Game Champion! Wilie Coytes Rocket Factory Champion! Storm The House Champion! aim and fire Champion! Batting Champ Champion! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Pedro, CA, USA Posts: 9,726 Blog Entries: 18 Like: 20 Liked 45 Times in 32 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 22,013 Level: 41 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 38.72% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 61.67% Monthly Activity 64.66% Achievements Awards	That's an interesting question... I've seen examples in which the authors describe PCs and situations in the new manuals, and IIRC they refer to Greyhawk...

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 5:44pm	#6
Sir Belisarius SPS Account Holder Distinguished Member Treasurer Viconia's Boy Toy Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: If there is a bright center of the universe, I'm in the city it's farthest from! Posts: 4,257 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,509 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.47% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Did TSR/WoC own the rights to the Realms and the other "worlds?" Or did they just have permission to use them? If the latter, that might explain it - Because Gygax originally created Greyhawk for D&D, and the others followed. Maybe the originators of the Realms, Krynn, et al...Retained their rights to their worlds, and WoC isn't allowed to use them? Just wondering out loud...

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 6:44pm	#7
Taluntain SPS Account Holder Founder Resident Alpha and Omega Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cori Celesti Posts: 20,809 Blog Entries: 13 Like: 159 Liked 124 Times in 80 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 53,178 Level: 58 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.51% Daily Activity 345.89% Weekly Activity 213.41% Monthly Activity 113.84% Achievements Awards	Actually, the Forgotten Realms were created by Ed Greenwood, which is still with WoTC. So if anything is weird, then it's the fact that they're reverting back to Gygax's original stuff. But I suppose they bought the whole deal so it's all theirs to use...

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 7:05pm	#8
Sir Belisarius SPS Account Holder Distinguished Member Treasurer Viconia's Boy Toy Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: If there is a bright center of the universe, I'm in the city it's farthest from! Posts: 4,257 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,509 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.47% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	I wasn't sure whether or not TSR/WoC owned the rights to all the others...I figured they did. Do they plan to continue with the Infinity Engine D&D games? Have you heard anything?

Mon, 22nd Jan '01, 10:23pm	#9
Taluntain SPS Account Holder Founder Resident Alpha and Omega Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cori Celesti Posts: 20,809 Blog Entries: 13 Like: 159 Liked 124 Times in 80 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 53,178 Level: 58 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.51% Daily Activity 345.89% Weekly Activity 213.41% Monthly Activity 113.84% Achievements Awards	Well after the expansion to BG2 is released, Infinity Engine will be abandoned. No new games will be made with that engine by Bioware, that's certain. They might sell the engine cheap to some other companies (if any will be willing to buy it), but I doubt it. If anyone else might still use it, it'd be Black Isle, but that's also highly unlikely since the project they're working on ATM uses a better engine already. So in essence, after BG2 it's R.I.P. Infinity Engine.

Wed, 24th Jan '01, 1:46am	#10
Crawl Gems: 23/31 Latest gem: Black Opal Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,530 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,837 Level: 19 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 74.9% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	That's a shame. The infinity engine was used while turning out the best looking role playing games I've seen yet. I hate to see it abandoned, especially if it's for the 3-D look of NWN. Nothing personal against NWN, more against 3-D look. For all the talk over the years about how real it looks, I just don't think that it looks better than some of the 2-D stuff. I really prefer the look of BG2 and HoW to the screenshots I've seen of NWN. Just a personal opinion, but the infinity engine is great. Hate to see it dropped.

Wed, 24th Jan '01, 12:44pm	#11
Sir Belisarius SPS Account Holder Distinguished Member Treasurer Viconia's Boy Toy Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: If there is a bright center of the universe, I'm in the city it's farthest from! Posts: 4,257 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,509 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 45.47% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	I definitely like the Infinity Engine...I think it still looks good despite its' age. First person is okay if you're only controlling your characters actions, but if you're running a group - like in BG/IWD, it's cumbersome.

Thu, 25th Jan '01, 4:38am	#12
Sol'Kanar Guest Posts: n/a vBActivity - Stats XP: 0 Level: 1 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0% Daily Activity 0% Weekly Activity 0% Monthly Activity 0%	Personally, I never payed much attention to what the setting in DnD was. I use the gods like Corellon Larethian and Gruumsh and all the rest even Helm and Torm all together. I Just threw them all together into Forgotten Realms for my scenerios.

Sat, 10th Feb '01, 7:05am	#13
Vile Gems: 8/31 Latest gem: Skydrop Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: San Marcos, CA (I bet cha never heard of it before, huh?) Posts: 299 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,142 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 60% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	I'll add my 2 cents to this conversation. I have also heard that the new D&D (so called 3rd) is not set in any special realm. They will, however be coming out with a forgotten realms campaign setting for D&D.