Modifying NPCs

Yulaw9460 · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:19am

Do you consider modifying your partymembers cheating? I´m thinking about 3 in particular, Jaheria, Minsc and Imoen. In BGI, I go for max hp´s and some other weaponprofs. As an example, Jaheira has 51 hp´s from the start, where her max hp´s would be 86!!! Would changing that from 51 to 86 be cheating, even if I ended BGI with WAY more hp´s than those measly 51? I honestly don´t that it can be.
The same with Minsc. His hp´s are 78 IIRC and SHOULD be 96... and I NEVER gave Minsc profs with Mace. I think that the Npc´s present in both games have been somewhat mistreated come BGII. Your thoughts?

[ September 10, 2005, 19:50: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Kitrax · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:56am

To tell the truth, I usually edit my NPCs. I'll give Immy 100pts in all her thieves...since she never gets to add anymore points later on, I'll lower Kelsey's and Aerie's THAC0 down from 10 to 5, and then I sometimes give everyone the boots of speed. But that's it.

And as to your initial question, yes, editing in favor of something is cheating...however, editing an NPC to hinder them isn't. In one game, I made my PC have an AC of 20, and a THAC0 of -5, but Lowered my CON down to 3, lowered my STR and DEX to 10.
Then I wrote a bio that basicly said that the PC was raised by a cruel version of Gorion, and spent every day on a hardwood bench, reading self defense books, and that the only form of exercise he ever got was from lifting the big books, and streching to put them back.

Editing the NPCs can add some fun to the game, but if you do it the typical way, it makes it too easy.

Yulaw9460 · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 5:42am

Well.... I didn´t exactly have something like that in mind, just sort of changing the characters back to how they were, before BGII screwed them up. Somehow information on characters from BGI should be implemented on them in BGII, if you import a character from the first game. If you had them in your party, that is...

Felinoid · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 7:26am

Change-back is perfectly fine, though you shouldn't forget to leave Minsc's dual-wield alone (it's a bonus as a ranger). If you really want to go hardcore you can change their stats back to what they were in BG1, as well.

LoneBadger · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 8:53am

Sometimes I move proficiencies around, particularly on my main character (when I've decided I made a poor choice, but don't want to have to restart the character). Add a point or two to some stats, but never enough to change the actual bonuses (Int 11 -> Int 13 makes no ruleswise difference). I also edited Kelsey to give him the Identify instead of Protection from Evil, since I had no-one with good Lore and no-one who could cast Identify.

Silverstar · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:05pm

Kitrax wrote:

'To tell the truth, I usually edit my NPCs. I'll give Immy 100pts in all her thieves...since she never gets to add anymore points later on, I'll lower Kelsey's and Aerie's THAC0 down from 10 to 5, and then I sometimes give everyone the boots of speed. But that's it.'

WHOA that is one HEAVY modfying I would never do it as it is fair cheating! And evil as well!

-Immy is a thief dualled into a mage and thus has left the ways of thievery in her past. She still has those 'little' tricks she learned, (she can't forget them) BUT she does not advance them, as she chases magehood now.

-Boots of speed oh it really makes the game easier
and travelling rather less boring. I THOUGHT of doing this ONCE but then did not want....

Ofcourse it is JUST me. OK?

olimikrig · Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:48pm

Quote:

Well.... I didn´t exactly have something like that in mind, just sort of changing the characters back to how they were, before BGII screwed them up. Somehow information on characters from BGI should be implemented on them in BGII, if you import a character from the first game. If you had them in your party, that is...

If you want to change them back to BGI mode, then you'll have to lower some of their stats too

Shrikant · Sun, 11th Sep '05, 3:10pm

You could make a full party by starting in multiplayer anyway. If that ain't cheating then I don't think hacking the NPCs is. Just remember that quite a few NPCs have one exclusive power or the other. So to make things fair remove that power.

For the three you mentioned
Imoen - extra spell slot.
Minsc - beserker rage.
Jaheira - spell, Harper's recall.

kuemper · Sun, 11th Sep '05, 3:43pm

When you're fixing mistakes with the PCs, it's not cheating. Such as:

-taking away an extra spell slot (Imoen, Nalia)
-correcting mistakes made by programmers (Immy's thieving point total)
-returning PCs to BG1 stats (Jaheira, Minsc)

The only editing that bugs me is (and there's a thread talking about it here) when you feel it 'necessary' to lower ability scores because you don't think they need it.

I don't feel multiplay is cheating. After playing through the single player game, I just get sick of listening to the PCs. MP gives me the chance to play with character classes no one bothered to think would be a nice change (F/T, R/C, F/M). Now you have to install mods to get some of these classes if you want the banter talks.

Yulaw9460 · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 9:51am

Quote:

If you want to change them back to BGI mode, then you'll have to lower some of their stats too

I don´t want them to change back to BGI, I just think it´s odd I finished it with "perfect" characters, only to find them... not exactly the way I left them. Like the thing about Jaheira´s hitpoints and Minsc´s profiency with long bow. I never used him as an archer in BGI, why should I do so in BGII? And Jaheira had a lot more hitpoints than 51. I change their hp´s and profs. the way they would have looked, if there was a more straight line between BGI and BGII. I don´t change the ability scores, since I have an idea that they probably got altered in their travels between Baldur´s Gate and Athkatla... or something like that. I don´t change my PC´s stats back to the original, and his stats were raised with tomes in BGI. Something similar could have happened to the other Npc´s... perhaps. But WHY would Minsc lose his axe-profiency and gain a profiency I didn´t give him in the first place and didn´t plan on giving him at all?

Caradhras · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 5:59pm

Minsc's favourite enemy changes from Gnoll to Vampire, it's so convenient, I guess that the mace proficiency is there so that he can use the Mace of Disruption.

kuemper · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 6:06pm

If you're going to act like that, don't forget to change his alignment back to NG, too.

Wordplay · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 6:24pm

I usually edit only to change appearance and re-allocate skill points in the beginning. In Viconia's case I also change her class and aligment (if only to avoid her getting hit by holy smite). Other than those, I can pretty much do with everything they originally gave.

Caradhras · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 8:32pm

Don't forget to change the colours too, Imoen wears pink not black and everybody knows that Minsc wears blue.

T2Bruno · Mon, 12th Sep '05, 9:08pm

I like using the BG1 portraits for Imoen and Jaheira. The first BG2 game I played I modified the stats and abilities to what the NPC's had in BG1. Jaheira is much more effective with a 17 wisdom. At the end of BG1, Minsc was proficient in flails, axes and large swords -- I gave those back to him (he's awesome with Azuredge). I only used the stat enhancing books my character needed, Imoen and Jaheira benefited greatly only to have the stats stripped away.

Later games I've tried using Jaheira as an Avenger Druid, Minsc as a Barbarian, and I'm still thinking of using Imoen as a sorcerer in another game.

Malovae · Tue, 13th Sep '05, 3:45am

The BG2 portraits of immy and vic are much better IMO. And the Jaheira portrait in BG2 suits her personality for some reason... she looks alot more bossy than in the first game.

I always add 4 to the movement speeds as I like to take advantage of the unique boots, but also hate moving slowly. Item Upgrade mod made this less of an issue but I have recently decided i don't like that mod anymore

Abdel - Bhaal Spawn · Tue, 13th Sep '05, 3:18pm

I am going to modify my NPC to what they were in BG1.

Here are a few examples.

Hit Points will be raised to what the NPC had in BG1.
Imoen thief level will be modified to level 10.
Edwin will gain all the spells he acquired in BG1.
Weapon. Prof. will be assigned to the weapon they used the most in BG1.
Etc...

I only want my characters to carry over as they should have from BG1.

Mon, 12th Sep '05, 5:59pm	#11
Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lugdunum Posts: 4,108 Blog Entries: 9 Like: 9 Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,386 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 30.48% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Minsc's favourite enemy changes from Gnoll to Vampire, it's so convenient, I guess that the mace proficiency is there so that he can use the Mace of Disruption.
	__________________ We’re going to hell so bring your sunblock.

Mon, 12th Sep '05, 8:32pm	#14
Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lugdunum Posts: 4,108 Blog Entries: 9 Like: 9 Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 10,386 Level: 30 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 30.48% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Don't forget to change the colours too, Imoen wears pink not black and everybody knows that Minsc wears blue.
	__________________ We’re going to hell so bring your sunblock.

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Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:19am	#1
Yulaw9460 Gems: 8/31 Latest gem: Skydrop Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 9460 Brovst, Denmark Posts: 250 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,011 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0.66% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Do you consider modifying your partymembers cheating? I´m thinking about 3 in particular, Jaheria, Minsc and Imoen. In BGI, I go for max hp´s and some other weaponprofs. As an example, Jaheira has 51 hp´s from the start, where her max hp´s would be 86!!! Would changing that from 51 to 86 be cheating, even if I ended BGI with WAY more hp´s than those measly 51? I honestly don´t that it can be. The same with Minsc. His hp´s are 78 IIRC and SHOULD be 96... and I NEVER gave Minsc profs with Mace. I think that the Npc´s present in both games have been somewhat mistreated come BGII. Your thoughts? [ September 10, 2005, 19:50: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:56am	#2
Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 7,916 Blog Entries: 11 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,724 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.7% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	To tell the truth, I usually edit my NPCs. I'll give Immy 100pts in all her thieves...since she never gets to add anymore points later on, I'll lower Kelsey's and Aerie's THAC0 down from 10 to 5, and then I sometimes give everyone the boots of speed. But that's it. And as to your initial question, yes, editing in favor of something is cheating...however, editing an NPC to hinder them isn't. In one game, I made my PC have an AC of 20, and a THAC0 of -5, but Lowered my CON down to 3, lowered my STR and DEX to 10. Then I wrote a bio that basicly said that the PC was raised by a cruel version of Gorion, and spent every day on a hardwood bench, reading self defense books, and that the only form of exercise he ever got was from lifting the big books, and streching to put them back. Editing the NPCs can add some fun to the game, but if you do it the typical way, it makes it too easy.

Sat, 10th Sep '05, 5:42am	#3
Yulaw9460 Gems: 8/31 Latest gem: Skydrop Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 9460 Brovst, Denmark Posts: 250 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,011 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0.66% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Well.... I didn´t exactly have something like that in mind, just sort of changing the characters back to how they were, before BGII screwed them up. Somehow information on characters from BGI should be implemented on them in BGII, if you import a character from the first game. If you had them in your party, that is...

Sat, 10th Sep '05, 7:26am	#4
Felinoid SPS Account Holder Who did the what now? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: the Tzenkethi homeworld Posts: 7,471 Like: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 15,794 Level: 36 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.01% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Change-back is perfectly fine, though you shouldn't forget to leave Minsc's dual-wield alone (it's a bonus as a ranger). If you really want to go hardcore you can change their stats back to what they were in BG1, as well.

Sat, 10th Sep '05, 8:53am	#5
LoneBadger Gems: 1/31 Latest gem: Turquoise Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 326 Level: 6 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 60.29% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Sometimes I move proficiencies around, particularly on my main character (when I've decided I made a poor choice, but don't want to have to restart the character). Add a point or two to some stats, but never enough to change the actual bonuses (Int 11 -> Int 13 makes no ruleswise difference). I also edited Kelsey to give him the Identify instead of Protection from Evil, since I had no-one with good Lore and no-one who could cast Identify.

Sat, 10th Sep '05, 3:05pm	#6
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.79% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Kitrax wrote: 'To tell the truth, I usually edit my NPCs. I'll give Immy 100pts in all her thieves...since she never gets to add anymore points later on, I'll lower Kelsey's and Aerie's THAC0 down from 10 to 5, and then I sometimes give everyone the boots of speed. But that's it.' WHOA that is one HEAVY modfying I would never do it as it is fair cheating! And evil as well! -Immy is a thief dualled into a mage and thus has left the ways of thievery in her past. She still has those 'little' tricks she learned, (she can't forget them) BUT she does not advance them, as she chases magehood now. -Boots of speed oh it really makes the game easier and travelling rather less boring. I THOUGHT of doing this ONCE but then did not want.... Ofcourse it is JUST me. OK?

Sun, 11th Sep '05, 3:10pm	#8
Shrikant Gems: 27/31 Latest gem: Emerald Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bombay,India Posts: 2,615 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,875 Level: 23 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 75.59% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	You could make a full party by starting in multiplayer anyway. If that ain't cheating then I don't think hacking the NPCs is. Just remember that quite a few NPCs have one exclusive power or the other. So to make things fair remove that power. For the three you mentioned Imoen - extra spell slot. Minsc - beserker rage. Jaheira - spell, Harper's recall.

Sun, 11th Sep '05, 3:43pm	#9
kuemper I'm gonna eat your soul! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Blood Wars Posts: 8,926 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,631 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.07% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	When you're fixing mistakes with the PCs, it's not cheating. Such as: -taking away an extra spell slot (Imoen, Nalia) -correcting mistakes made by programmers (Immy's thieving point total) -returning PCs to BG1 stats (Jaheira, Minsc) The only editing that bugs me is (and there's a thread talking about it here) when you feel it 'necessary' to lower ability scores because you don't think they need it. I don't feel multiplay is cheating. After playing through the single player game, I just get sick of listening to the PCs. MP gives me the chance to play with character classes no one bothered to think would be a nice change (F/T, R/C, F/M). Now you have to install mods to get some of these classes if you want the banter talks.

Mon, 12th Sep '05, 6:06pm	#12
kuemper I'm gonna eat your soul! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Blood Wars Posts: 8,926 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 19,631 Level: 39 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50.07% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	If you're going to act like that, don't forget to change his alignment back to NG, too.

Mon, 12th Sep '05, 6:24pm	#13
Wordplay Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: --Gone-- Posts: 3,453 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 7,448 Level: 26 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 30.46% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	I usually edit only to change appearance and re-allocate skill points in the beginning. In Viconia's case I also change her class and aligment (if only to avoid her getting hit by holy smite). Other than those, I can pretty much do with everything they originally gave.

Mon, 12th Sep '05, 9:08pm	#15
T2Bruno SPS Account Holder The only source of knowledge is experience Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago -- far west suburbs. Posts: 9,310 Like: 19 Liked 76 Times in 58 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 22,254 Level: 41 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 57.1% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 26.36% Achievements Awards	I like using the BG1 portraits for Imoen and Jaheira. The first BG2 game I played I modified the stats and abilities to what the NPC's had in BG1. Jaheira is much more effective with a 17 wisdom. At the end of BG1, Minsc was proficient in flails, axes and large swords -- I gave those back to him (he's awesome with Azuredge). I only used the stat enhancing books my character needed, Imoen and Jaheira benefited greatly only to have the stats stripped away. Later games I've tried using Jaheira as an Avenger Druid, Minsc as a Barbarian, and I'm still thinking of using Imoen as a sorcerer in another game.

Tue, 13th Sep '05, 3:45am	#16
Malovae Gems: 18/31 Latest gem: Horn Coral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 1,050 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,587 Level: 16 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 62.39% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	The BG2 portraits of immy and vic are much better IMO. And the Jaheira portrait in BG2 suits her personality for some reason... she looks alot more bossy than in the first game. I always add 4 to the movement speeds as I like to take advantage of the unique boots, but also hate moving slowly. Item Upgrade mod made this less of an issue but I have recently decided i don't like that mod anymore

Tue, 13th Sep '05, 3:18pm	#17
Abdel - Bhaal Spawn Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 561 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,682 Level: 13 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 76.46% Daily Activity 2.46% Weekly Activity 2.46% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	I am going to modify my NPC to what they were in BG1. Here are a few examples. Hit Points will be raised to what the NPC had in BG1. Imoen thief level will be modified to level 10. Edwin will gain all the spells he acquired in BG1. Weapon. Prof. will be assigned to the weapon they used the most in BG1. Etc... I only want my characters to carry over as they should have from BG1.