POLL: The "How Would They Vote?" Poll

[Bion]

Following the Combining Politics and SoA/ToB topic started by Aldeth in AoLS (and cutting him off before he starts another poll ), I thought I'd ask: How would the vanilla bioware NPCs vote if they were to vote today in the context of a representative democracy? For sake of simplicity, the options are just "Right" and "Left." You could conceptualize this within any national context: either as a two-party system or as a coalitions that could be described as "Conservative" and "Liberal" while including both moderate and extreme parties. Also, your vote could be based on any combination of factors including social, economic, and political issues...

Poll Information
This poll contains 17 question(s). 34 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: The "How Would They Vote?" Poll (34 votes.)

Imoen (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 9% (3)
* Left/Liberal - 91% (31)

Minsc (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 50% (17)
* Left/Liberal - 50% (17)

Jaheira (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 53% (18)
* Left/Liberal - 47% (16)

Viconia (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 32% (11)
* Left/Liberal - 68% (23)

Edwin (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 76% (26)
* Left/Liberal - 24% (8)

Korgan (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 56% (19)
* Left/Liberal - 44% (15)

Nalia (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 26% (9)
* Left/Liberal - 74% (25)

Yoshimo (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 44% (15)
* Left/Liberal - 56% (19)

Aerie (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 65% (22)
* Left/Liberal - 35% (12)

Jan Jansen (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 6% (2)
* Left/Liberal - 94% (32)

Keldorn Firecam (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 94% (32)
* Left/Liberal - 6% (2)

Haer'Dalis (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 9% (3)
* Left/Liberal - 91% (31)

Anomen (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 85% (29)
* Left/Liberal - 15% (5)

Cernd (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 53% (18)
* Left/Liberal - 47% (16)

Valygar (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 44% (15)
* Left/Liberal - 56% (19)

Mazzy Fentan (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 74% (25)
* Left/Liberal - 26% (9)

Sarevok (Choose 1)
* Right/Conservative - 50% (17)
* Left/Liberal - 50% (17)

[Ziad]

This is fun. Somehow tricky with some of them though. But I will assume, since this is posted in the ToB forum, that for NPCs whose personality changes over the saga that this is their "final" place in the spectrum (if this were BG1, I would have put Jaheira as conservative for example).

Imoen: liberal. She's too wild to be a conservative, and besides she's a thief. Not to mention she gets Bhaalspawn powers.
Minsc: conservative. Probably because of his attachment to traditions, Boo, and his Witch (whether it's Dynaheir or Aerie)
Jaheira: liberal. Her husband's dead, yet she is getting in a relationship with her protege (who's younger by quite a large number of years). On top of that she breaks with the traditional branch of the Harpers and sets out with a Bhaalspawn against them.
Viconia: very liberal. After all she's a Drow outcast, and that's not something very common, or very conservative for that matter.
Edwin: I would have said apolitical, but since that's not an option I voted liberal. Too chaotic to be a conservative (actually to chaotic to be a liberal too, but we've got to pick something)
Korgan: liberal. Same argument as Edwin
Nalia: definitely liberal, in the sense of "welfare to the poor". However, when it comes to her deeper mentality she does sound rather conservative.
Yoshimo: liberal, I think
Aerie: conservative. After all she's against sex before marriage
Jan: liberal, mainly because of his (mostly illegal) production of various unique gadgets
Keldorn: as conservative as you can get in this game. No need to elaborate I think
Haer'Dalis: liberal. Kind of hard to imagine a tiefling being otherwise.
Anomen: conservative, at least if he doesn't fail his test.
Cernd: I see his love of nature and dislike of cities as being conservative, but it's not really political, so it's hard to tell.
Valygar: liberal. Not sure why though.
Mazzy: conservative. "Servant of justice and righteousness..." That's not very liberal.
Sarevok: liberal (duh!)

[Silverstar]

Hmm interesting poll! I voted, though I am not expert at those things, I do believe I know NPCs well enough to make a rough decision.

[Nakia]

Very Interesting poll. Votes will depend on how one defines liberal and conservative.

Sarevok was the hardest for me. I don't see Sarevok voting for anything except what would benefit him.

[Bion]

Yeah, the Sarevok vote was one of the tough spots the poll brings up: the guy was an autocrat staging a putsch to start a war for the sake of personal power. "The Flaming Fist" was likely destined to become something along the lines of a Baldur's Gate SS if not for the intrepid PC and his allies. Also, he likely would have become a "charismatic leader" of the fascist type, even if he was using this fascism towards personal ends.

The poll also might make one think about the assumptions behind alignments, such as: are Lawful alignments more conservative than Chaotic alignments? If Sarevok was indeed "Chaotic Evil", would he have to front a "Lawful" persona to run a fascist regime? Would "Law" and "Chaos" mean different things in a rightist or leftist context? Also, as most people would consider Sarevok to represent anything but a political moderate, would this bring up the issue of the supposed place where the extreme far right and extreme far left meet?

I thought it would be more interesting to leave these questions for discussion, and not add alot of extra options to the poll (such as "moderate", "far right", or "far left").

Finally, there's the issue of balancing social concerns against economic and political ones: i.e., is Jaheira's belief in a natural order traditionalist or green/environmentalist? Enjoy...

[Felinoid]

Imoen - liberal: Thief; 'nuff said.
Minsc - conservative: Just random; I don't think he's capable of political thoughts
Jaheira - conservative turned liberal: [spoilers omitted]
Viconia - liberal: Outcast for beliefs; 'nuff said.
Edwin - conservative: Bends the laws to his whim; LE.
Korgan - conservative: I imagine he'd be leading the charge for the death penalty.
Nalia - liberal: Spoiled brat who thinks she knows everything when she doesn't.
Yoshimo - liberal: Thief; advocate for dead voters' rights.
Aerie - conservative: Naive and traditional.
Jan - liberal: He's a thief who sells black market goods; 'nuff said.
Keldorn - conservative: Paladin; 'nuff said.
Haer'Dalis - liberal: Bard; 'nuff said.
Anomen - conservative: Knight of the Order; 'nuff said. (Could be liberal if he fails, but...meh.)
Cernd - liberal: Another random one (should balance out Minsc's random conservative). He's a true druid (unlike Jaheira), so I'd classify him as independent.
Valygar - conservative: Anti-magic, pro family values, advocates death penalty for his entire family line.
Mazzy - liberal: Halfling wannabe paladin; about as freaky/unusual as it gets.
Sarevok - conservative: Death, death, and more death; also manipulates the laws (see BG1).

[Nakia]

Except for Yoshimo my vote was the same as Felinoid. Why I voted Yoshimo conservative is rather complicated. He is a bounty hunter and I don't think cares for anyone but himself. By the end of the game maybe he's more liberal but he's also dead.

[kuemper]

Most of my votes were on par with what others voted. Some mixes:

Yoshimo - Right. He's a thief yes, but he seems to me to try to stay within the laws of wherever he's at.
Edwin - Right. He'll use the laws and bend them to his needs. Why cause trouble if you don't have to?
Jaheira - Left. She gets moreso as the game progresses.
Cernd - Right. Some underlying impression when he talks about nature and his barks with other NPCs.
Sarevok - Left. He comes off as the type of guy who will follow the rules if he made them. Otherwise, .

Now my brain hurts. Thanks, Bion!

[Klorox]

Anybody Chaotic or a Druid, LEFT

Lawful = RIGHT

Neutral = case by case basis.

[NonSequitur]

I'm not imposing value-judgements, only stating how I think they'd vote. Interestingly, with the only exceptions of Aerie and Sarevok, my typical parties only contain liberal voters...

I think Boo is a progressive and a proponent of animal rights, BTW (well, except for weasels).

Liberals: Imoen, Jaheira (BG2 onward), Viconia, Nalia, Jan, Haer'Dalis, Valygar

Conservatives: Edwin, Korgan, Keldorn, Aerie, Cernd, Anomen, Yoshimo (despite being a thief), Mazzy

Whatever Boo Says: Minsc

Whatever Suits Me: Sarevok (probably Edwin and Korgan, too)

Almost without exception, I think modded NPCs I've used would be liberal/left-leaning voters as well. The typical adventurer is probably a bit of a non-conformist by nature, so would tend to that line of thought anyway, IMO.

[Bion]

The breakdown after 15 votes (don't I have better things to do?):

All in all, NPCs pretty much even out over the political spectrum, with a slight lean to the left (51.4%). The Law/Chaos axis tends to follow a shift from Right to Left (Law is 73.3% Right, Neutrality is 40%, and Chaos is 33.3%). A strange thing happens with the Good/Evil axis though: Both Good and Evil tend Right at the exact same percentage (53.3% Right), while Neutrality with respect to Good and Evil tend Left (60% Left).

Both Fighters (all characters using the Fighter THAC0) and Divine spellcasters tend to the Right (Both 60.8% right), while Thieves (incl Bards) and Arcane spellcasters tend to the Left (93.3% and 66.7% Left, respectively).

Finally, Humans tend to be more Conservative (60%) than Demi-Humans (46.7%, or 41% incl HD).

[Western Paladin]

Anybody Chaotic or a Druid, LEFT

Lawful = RIGHT

Neutral = case by case basis.

Technically, there are libertarians and non-libertarians on both the left and the right, so I don't think Lawful = right-wing is always exactly correct. Paladin = right-wing I could believe.

For the record, I voted so I could see the results. I'm don't think this kind of poll and discussion really adds anything to my enjoyment of the game. Knowing how I am, I expect people to say their favorite characters vote the same way they do and their least favorite characters vote the opposite way.

[Chandos the Red]

*****Please be advised that all of my responses are only in fun, and should not be taken as serious in any fashion.*****

Imoen: Liberal - She seems to be the "live and let live" type to me.

conservative. "Servant of justice and righteousness..."

Judging by what's happening in the real world, one should change "servant" to "victims of justice."

liberal. She's too wild to be a conservative, and besides she's a thief.

Since she's not a "white collar" thief, I suppose she could be a liberal - I guess.

Minsc - Liberal: Animal rights advocate if ever there was one.

Jahira - Conservative: Belongs to a secret organization that doesn't admit outsiders. Why don't the Harpers want us to see what they are doing anyway?

Viconia - Conservative - She would not invade a much smaller country - she would probably just "nuke" it. Besides, she's blond. I'm sure we've seen her as an analyst on FOX.

Edwin - Conservative: Looks like a card carying NRA type to me. He would despise the idea of "magic control."

Korgan - Conservative: Believes strongly in capital punishment.

Nalia - Liberal: She's thinks she's just one of the "people." And even though she isn't, she has enough contempt for established authority (the nobility) to make her a good liberal.

Yoshimo - Liberal: This guy is w-a-y too chaotic to be a conservative.

Arie - Liberal: She's way too whiney to be a conservative.

Jan - He just seems like a card carrying Green member to me. What's in those turnips anyway?

Keldorn - Conservative: Active in covert operations for a religious organization that has close ties to the current regime.

Valygar - Liberal: An organization of "grand wizards" wants to hire someone to kill a black man hiding in the woods. If he's not a liberal, he needs some serious help.

Mazzy - Liberal: This woman is a forest ranger. She protects the environment, a "tree hugger."

Sarevok - Conservative: Who's under that helmet anyway?

[ October 24, 2005, 05:53: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

[Klorox]

BTW, the Anomen vote is kinda tricky, as IMHO (and according to my categorization) he could be either, depending on how his test goes.

I stand by my statement. Conservatives are more interested in tradition and rules, Liberals are all for change and individuality; this follows the Law/Choas axis defined in the Player's Handbook pretty darn closely.

BTW, Nalia is the closest example to a real world "limosine liberal" like most of Hollywood. And I think Druids are tree hugging hippies with spellcasting abilities. And when was the last time you heard of a conservative hippie?

[Bion]

Jan - He just seems like a card carrying Green member to me. What's in those turnips anyway?

Then again, he is a small business man just trying to make a living in spite of IRS, I mean, Amnian Guard regualations and interference. And what about "death taxes" on the Jansen estate? But you're probably right; the (conservative) Lehtinans of the world go on snorting their black lotus with impunity, while the (liberal) Jan risks jail for his natural high...

Valygar - Liberal: An organization of "grand wizards" wants to hire someone to kill a black man hiding in the woods. If he's not a liberal, he needs some serious help.

Wow, that angle *never* occured to me...

[Shrikant]

Some one please explain liberal and conservative to me first. If liberal means allowing change to happen then the left parties here are as far as possible from it. Afaik its right/liberal and left/conservative.

Left - opposed to change, prefers that the government tell the individual what to do.

Right - all for freedom of individual, private bussiness, less taxes, smaller government with less powers and influence.

If someone can explain stuff to me I might be able to vote.

[Nakia]

That is the problem with language. First you have to agree on a definition. I can't tell my left from my right so I ignored that.

Merriam-Webster definition:

Liberal - 5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

Conservative - a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners

[kuemper]

Mazzy - Liberal: This woman is a forest ranger. She protects the environment, a "tree hugger."

Forest ranger? Protecting the environment? I thought she was a Special Forces kind of gal.

FR: Faiths and Pantheons Avoreen's Dogma:
Vigilence against attack protects the community. Prepare an active defense, drill continuously and leave nothing to chance. Put down danger before allowing it a chance to rear its head. Seek out allies no matter how unorthodox. Stealing from other halflings or allies is never acceptable, but thieving is never dishonorable iwhen employed against enemies to better the odds later in combat.

I'm not arguing, just wondering about the definition of 'forest ranger'.

[T2Bruno]

Minsc would not vote -- he would simply get righteously angry at the whole voting process and take up a quest to rid the world of voting booths.

Jan would bore everyone to sleep and then stuff the ballot box for the candidate who love turnips most.

Sarevok would not need to vote. He would simply stand next to a disembowelled body and rumble "VOTE for ME" to everyone entering the polling station. He would have a landslide victory.

[Bion]

@Shrikant- spoken like a true Bombayite!

Of course, in much of the world, market liberalization is very much opposed to tradition, and is often seen as socially destabilizing. This is not only the case with "traditional" religious societies, but also with secular socialist societies that are opening up to the market (thus, all the Kolkata Bong socialists nostalgic for the Soviet Union).

"Left" doesn't necessarily mean anti-market at all, and there's a big gap between market liberals of the left and socialists of the left. In the US, internationalism and globalization was once the province of the center-left (just as internationalism was a central concern of the socialist left), while the right still had isolationist tendencies. In fact, "paleo-conservatives" in the US are about as upset with the internationalist neo-conservatives as anyone from the left (thus, the so-called far right and far left tend to be in agreement in issues such as anti-globalization).

By the way: running the current vote totals still gives us the same general results: 1) humans are more conservative than non-humans; 2) lawful is more conservative than chaotic; 3) both good and evil are more conservative than neutrality; and 4) fighters and divine spellcasters are more conservative than thieves or arcane spellcasters (and among divine spell casters, clerical spellcasters are more conservative than druidical spellcasters, but both are still much more conservative than arcane spellcasters)...

[SatansBedFellow]

Hilarious post Chandos.

Valygar - Liberal: An organization of "grand wizards" wants to hire someone to kill a black man hiding in the woods. If he's not a liberal, he needs some serious help.

I shan't be able to look at the 'Find Valygar' quest the sameway again...