POLL: Berserker/Cleric VS Berserker/Druid

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Which character would be the most powerful?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 33 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: Berserker/Cleric VS Berserker/Druid (33 votes.)

Berserker/Cleric VS Berserker/Druid (Choose 1)
* Berserker/Cleric - 21% (7)
* Berserker/Druid - 79% (26)

 

i'd go with the druid multiclass. while the cleric's healing spells are handy, the offensive capabilities of the druids spells in this particular game rock. and imo, this is the only time its actually really worth it to use a druid. in bg2 all i found useful was insect swarm...

 

We're talking bout dual-classed beserker druid i hope?

 

Berserker/Druid. He's got Iron Skins, Insect Swarm, Greater Elemental Summoning, and all the other buffs which clerics have as well, but which augment this guy heaps.

the B/D is much more powerful.

 

B/D. As Faraz said, he has iron skins. Also regeneration, shield of the Achorns etc. makes him pretty powerful! There isn't all that much in it though.

[Edit] Do Druids have Negative plane of Prot.? This could tip the argument either way.

 

Yes, Druids get NPP, but I don't think that's very important.

Here is a list of the spells that Druids do not get:
1:
Command
Magic Stone
Protection from Evil
Remove Fear
Sanctuary

2:
Aid
Chant
Draw Upon Holy Might
Hold Person
Silence 15'
Spiritual Hammer

3:
Animate Dead
Glyph of Warding
Holy Smite
Remove Curse
Remove Paralysis
Unholy Blight

4:
Free Action
Holy Power
Lesser Restoration
Protection from Evil 10' radius

5:
Champion's Strength
Flame Strike
Greater Command
Raise Dead (Jaheira has Harper's Call instead)
Repulse Undead
Righteous Magic
Slay Living

6:
Aerial Servant
Blade Barrier
Bolt of Glory
False Dawn
Sol's Searing Orb

7:
Finger of Death
Gate
Greater Restoration
Holy Word/Unholy Word
Resurrection
Sunray
Symbol of Death
Symbol of Fear
Symbol of Stun

Edited:

Ber/Dru must have high Str, Wis and Cha, while the Ber/Cle only needs high Str and Wis. These limitations make it harder to create a good Ber/Dru than a Ber/Cle. Either you make the character weaker (statwise) or you roll longer for good stats.

[ August 15, 2004, 09:48: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

Meh...a Berserker/Druid is an offensive machine. If you want a cleric, go for Ranger/Cleric.

They are even more fearsome!!

 

thanks to Earl Grey for the details about the spells.

About stats: in both cases you don't have to get more than STR 15 (while you should max WIS)... the only difference is that the druid needs a much higher CHA (you've got a point here I guess actually it depends on whether you're lucky or not).

I was refering to the dual classed Berserker/Druid, I wouldn't go multiclass Fighter/Druid since you already have Jaheira (who by the way gets an extra spell: Harper's call)

(Faraaz, I LOVE the Ranger/Cleric multiclass, actually it's the character which I used the first time I finished the game -dual wielding, both cleric and druid spells and the ranger's HLA)

[From a RP point of view:
-the Berserker/Druid makes more sense, the berserker being closer to his "animal" spirit/instinct. One could justify a Berserker/Cleric as a follower of Tempus (actually that would be the closer one could get in BG2 without introducing a new kit)
-growing up in Candlekeep as a fighter (berserker) could also be justified by the taint in the character's blood. The Druid class could result from Jaheira's influence over the character since she's been with him almost from the start (if the character had wanted to be a cleric, ha would have many opportunities to become one while growing up in Candlekeep, would he not?)]

What needs to be considered beside spells is which items/weapons you can/can't use...

-The cleric can use warhammers, maces, morningstars and flails.
-The druid can use daggers, spears, and scimitars.
They can both use clubs and quarterstaves.

Since you don't want/need to go too far with the berserker (not beyond level 12) and since you would like to have grandmastery in a weapon (and depending on the weapon type, some proficiency points in: two-handed, single or two-weapons, maybe shield) you'd need to know which type of weapons you'd like to use.

I would go with warhammers for the cleric and scimitars for the druid (dual wielding scimitars looks great)

 

The druid option would easily be the most powerful as druid spells can be devastating. I always favour a cleric for the healing side of things, but if I wanted an offensive character, it'd be druid all the way.

 

I just can't picture a B/D, even though I think they are better. I see Druids as neutral, calm characters tending nature and being more strategic with their battles. Clerics on the other hand would he far more fanatical and the Berserker suits them much more - a Berskerker/Cleric of Tempus (or Talos) would seem quite normal on the battle field.

Power-play = B/D.
Role-play = B/C.

 

Interesting point, and one I would tend to agree with. Unless of course they were a shadow druid. They are a little more violent and agressive, and could be suitable for a B/D. A normal druid would definately be too calm for a beserker type though.

 

@Bard: Wooow I disagree!!!

Druids represent nature. They can be calm like a hot summer afternoon then turn into a storm! (nice metaphor )

Actually I picture them like Cernd: soft spoken and easygoing... but remember Cernd when he shapeshifts and fights: he turns enemies into shreds of flesh and blood with his claws!

The berserker:

"This is a warrior who is in tune with his animalistic side and, during combat, can achieve an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right to. Berserkers tend to be barbarian-like in nature, but not always. Sometimes it is a conscious choice that a warrior in training makes."

The Druid:

"The druid serves the cause of nature and neutrality; the wilderness is his community. He uses his special powers to protect it and to preserve balance in the world."

I don't see any contradiction between these two classes. If you remember Faldorn's voice set in BG1 she was pretty feral...

The berserker and the druid are both closer to nature and attuned to their animal side and instincts. The druid shapeshifts into a wolf or a bear. The berserker acts as a wild beast when he fights. Shall I remind you that the word "berserker" comes from the Old Norse words for "bear" and "shirt"... so the link is much stronger than you seem to believe.

On the other hand the Berserker/Cleric (with the exception of Tempus doesn't really fit in so nicely... well that's my opinion)

 

Definitely the Beserker/Druid, although good luck getting the minimum ability scores to do it. From the other thread, you need a minimum of:

STR: 15, WIS 17, CHA 17.

That's possible, especially if you want to wimp out on other stats, but most people also want their beserkers to have 18 in CON and DEX, and now you're getting into some tough rolls.

 

@Aldeth: this character won't need a high CON! With Ironskin, not much will hurt him seriously and the Berserker hitpoints (D10) will be enough to get started. In fact I wouldn't put more than 16 points in CON since 17 and 18 are only useful for a fighter. You might even consider going down to 7 in CON...

There are no penalty whatsoever to the number of HP, and it could make sense if you see the Berserker/Druid as akin to the Avenger whose powers "have been earned through extensive rituals, a process that is very physically draining."

 

A Berserker/Druid starts as a single class fighter so he does get the full bonus from high constitution. I think Aldeth makes a good point about the high minimum scores.

 

@Caradhras - everything you say is true. However, I consider putting your constitution at 7 to be wimping out on a stat. And I covered this when I said:

Would you really want to make a fighter with a 7 in constitution? Also, while it is true that only fighters get the bonus for high constitution scores, you are going to be a fighter for the first 9 levels! And that's at a time when you WON'T have access to ironskin. The +4 to hit points comes out to 36 extra hit points, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Look, it's certainly possible. However, most people don't like having any stat under 10. Also most people like having all of their primary stats at 18, and also having an 18 or 16 in constitution, depending on whether or not your are a fighter. Even if you're willing to go with a 15 in strength (and most people are not) you need a natural roll of 96 to satisfy all your stats. Certainly a possible roll, but it's likely going to take you a while.

EDIT: Changed stoneskin to ironskin

[ August 17, 2004, 17:11: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

@Aldeth: I know this sounds weird but I really don't mind playing a fighter with STR 15 and CON 7 if his/her DEX is 17 or 18
Besides since this character is going to be the PC hence the leader, I don't mind him having WIS 18 and CHA 18 (on the contrary) and since he/she is going to lead I wouldn't give him/her less than INT 12.

So roughly speaking:
STR 15 DEX 17 CON 7 INT 12 WIS 18 CHA 18

that's 87 points in the abilities (Imoen has 87 points and Sarevok... even more) with CON 18 that would be even more than Sarevok (either you fix the stats or you keep rolling for ever... to get 87 points you need to be lucky).

Anyway when I think about the composite bows in Irenicus' dungeon -the bows that require a STR of 18- I can't imagine how the puny gobelins manage to use them while only a few characters can (most of the time, if not always, only good old Minsc).

If you're going to be a fighter up to level 9 or 10 you don't have so much to worry about. Even with a low CON you'll start with roughly 70 HP, that's not so bad considering that a level 7 druid or cleric with CON 16 would have the same amount of HP. In my opinion the Rage ability and the weapon proficiencies are the reasons why we start as a Berserker. The HP are just some extra bonus, if you can get them fine, if you can't it's no big deal.

@Earl Grey: Sure, you can get many extra HP with a CON of 18, but in the long run it's not going to make that much of a difference. Besides at the beginning of the game (active Berserker) you will have your Bhaal powers to tip the scale in your favour. I'd rather have a low AC since the tough part is going to be when your Berserker will become inactive (as it is the case with all DC characters) it's not a real issue here because Druids gain levels very quickly (125K for level 10 -that's even less than a Thief!) -that is up to level 12...

 

@Caradhras: I'll concede what you say about the B/D, even though I still disagree.

Getting 87 on a stat roll is actually quite easy and only having CON=7 is unrealistic. That is below average for almost any character class and a fighter would have much higher. Maybe not 16+, but still higher. I would drop INT-2 and CHA-3 and give yourself at least CON=10.

I would go:
STR 15 DEX 17 CON 15 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 17

This is a 92 stat roll, which is very easily achievable. Remember people follow the wise, not just the intelligent. Wisdom is about common-sense and is probably better than a knowledgable fool.

 

@Bard: The stats of many NPCs are way too high. Take Edwin for instance 16 CON (the same as Minsc)!!! Look at all these freaks with 17 or 18 DEX!!! (Imoen, Jaheira, Sarevok, Yoshimo, Aerie, Haer'Dalis, Jan, Nalia, Viconia, Mazzy, Valygar) that's way too many...

Consider CON:

19: Korgan

17: Sarevok, Keldorn, Jaheira

16: Valygar, Mazzy, Nalia, Edwin, Anomen, Yoshimo, Minsc

15: Jan

13: Cernd

9: Haer'Dalis, Aerie

8: Viconia

Most NPCs have more than 15! Do you really want to argue about realism here?

The way I see it: a 7 CON could be justified in the same way as the penalties on STR and CON that are applied on the Avenger kit: "[abilities] earned through extensive rituals, a process that is very physically draining."

So you could get away with a low CON by saying that the character has been enacting straining rituals, exposing himself to severe hardships, fasting and taking poisons in order to develop these abilities and therefore he would suffer from some aftereffects. This could make the character interesting, at least different from all these muscle bulging PCs that have been plundering the Sword Coast for years!

-Regarding INT and WIS:

I agree with you about WIS (never said I would lower WIS, even if I could -except to play a suicidal Rogue)

What about an intelligent AND wise leader???

INT 10 is Jaheira's level... would anyone be willing to follow Jaheira's lead?

A real leader would need first and foremost a high CHA, then INT and WIS.

So which NPCs would qualify best?

-Keldorn 12 16 18 this man is a veteran and the most experienced leader the PC is likely to meet

-Viconia 16 18 14 both intelligent and wise, if she wasn't so outspoken she certainly would get a higher CHA

-Cernd 12 18 13 this druid is an authority figure in druidic circles (pun intended)

-Mazzy 10 13 14 she was the leader of her party (nobody said she was an effective leader though)

Leaders shouldn't have a low INT... well characters with low CHA and high INT (like Edwin) can be considered to act as the power behind the throne... (of Bhaal? lol)

Furthermore consider Sarevok: 17 10 15 why the low WIS? (is it because of his greed for power which blinded him?) Wasn't he the chief of the Iron Throne in BG1? Well his high INT more than makes up for his average WIS to say the least...

-Sorry this is a long post-

about the stat roll, let's have a look at the NPCs:

Sarevok 96, Keldorn 89, Jaheira 88, Yoshimo 88, Imoen 87, Nalia 87, Haer'Dalis 87, Mazzy 86, Viconia 85, Valygar 85, Aerie 82, Jan 81, Korgan 80, Cernd 80, Anomen 79 (83), Edwin 74, Minsc 73.

So roughly an average of 84 points.

92 is as good as 87 so far as the Berserker/Druid is concerned (you will only benefit from some extra -not that many- HP)

It all depends on the way you're going to play. I see low stats as another means to create colourful PCs. Look at Minsc he rocks with only 73 points, his low INT and low WIS make him stand out among the other Rangers and Fighters in the Baldur's Gate series.

 

But, you are the child of a God and would more naturally have high stats. I personally think that Dex is the over-used stat.

CON is about endurance, stamina and the ability to take knocks - this is exactly what you need as an adventurer especially in the wilds. I am not saying necessarily make it 15, but 7 is border-line sickly. You were a fighter, strong and powerful, yet Viconia is far hardier than you - I just don't see it somehow.

Dex however (as you've said), is a different matter. Fighters and Paladins should have low dex, because they are strong and less agile. They use full plate and shields to make up for their lack of dex. Whereas, thieves and mages are nimble and would have high dex, but wouldn't have the strength to wear the decent armours.

I will agree about INT, it does make sense. I never have it below 10 myself (usually 10 though), as I see this as the average (or slightly above) intelligence for most people.