rangers, why bad

Steeze · Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 1:48pm

hey all. im newish to iwd2, but ive played both bg games and i play an ad&d campaign with my friends reguraly, and rangers would have to be one of my fav classes, why does everyone think they are so bad in iwd2, i just dont understand.

Crom the Powerfull · Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 2:45pm

They gain feats slower than fighters do
They dont have any bonusses with the bow like they have in BG2.
They dont get the feat 3rd slot in armor prof.
Natural enemies only gets bonus to damage, not to hit IIRC
Animal Empathy is not used at all or maybe 2 times in the game
Tracking is kind os useless, you see what enemies there are in the area , once you face them

Well, I just cant think anything good about them

Colthrun · Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 3:32pm

@Crom the Powerfull
Only the Archer kit had bonuses with bows in BG2, IIRC.

Good things about rangers:
1- They get ambidexterity for free
2- They get some minor spells (try beast claw)
3- They can hide in shadows and scout
4- They are a very appropriate class to play in IW2, if you like role playing your characters.

chevalier · Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 4:15pm

Like with paladins, most of rangers' benefits rely heavily upon character roleplaying and roleplaying opportunities, and that is hard to implement in a video game.

Steeze · Sat, 23rd Oct '04, 9:46am

ok then, so is it worth playing them in iwd2? any ideas on how to make them stronger?

Vassago · Mon, 25th Oct '04, 3:40pm

Most people use the Ranger class as a mix-in. For example, I have a Wizard in my party who uses dual short swords. So instead of taking the two feats to allow this w/ minimum penalties, I mixed in a level of Ranger. IMO, it works well with a Wizard because of the Arcane Failure % brought on by armor and shields.

Crueak Arborshate
Male Drow Chaotic Evil
Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Wizard X
STR 10 DEX 20 CON 10 INT 20 WIS 10 CHA 10
Weapons: Dual Small Blades (Piercing), Quaterstaff (Bludgeoning), Bow (Missile (Piercing))

chevalier · Mon, 25th Oct '04, 4:15pm

Wizard with two levels in the Rogue class (starting the game as level 1 Rogue for the skill points) is probably the best idea. Maybe one level of Barbarian if you aren't Lawful, for the speed increase.

For more advanced (or daring) players, perhaps a Monk(1+)/Ranger would be a good idea, with lots of DEX and WIS, also using items like that ring which increases WIS by 5. Every God Ring or some such name. And Ranger spells aren't that bad...

Fighter(4)/Ranger(x) instead of a DEX-based fighter also makes sense. Could even go Rogue(3)/Fighter(4)/Ranger(x), or even Rogue(3)/Barbarian(3)/Fighter(4)/Ranger(x).

Nizidramanii'yt · Mon, 25th Oct '04, 4:51pm

It basically comes down to the fact that you shouldn't spend more than 1 level of ranger, just to profit from the 2 extra feats. Rangers gain feats slower, but the 2 xtra feats complement that.

Daragnia Onyj Snererme · Thu, 28th Oct '04, 3:06am

Personally i have only had a good elf ranger in IWD one and thats about all he was a great archer but it seemed that they are the same as fighters just called rangers and dont get as many feats.

Takara · Thu, 28th Oct '04, 7:59am

I just found that there were no benefits to a ranger. A fighter had much more going for them (weapon specialisation etc), and the ranger skills, like tracking etc, just had no place.

Crom the Powerfull · Thu, 28th Oct '04, 4:31pm

Quote:

I just found that there were no benefits to a ranger. A fighter had much more going for them (weapon specialisation etc), and the ranger skills, like tracking etc, just had no place.

The only thing a ranger gets that a fighter cannot get are some crappy spells and favoured enemies ( not that much ) the feats they get for free ? With the surplus of feats you get as fighter, you can take them also.
Tracking is hard to implement into a game, its quite useless I agree

Daragnia Onyj Snererme · Fri, 29th Oct '04, 1:52am

yeah the only place you need tracking is in the lonleywood forest to find your way through and thats about it.

Beren · Fri, 29th Oct '04, 7:51am

The only real use to a Ranger in IWD2 was to use one level on another character to get dual-wielding for free. This cheesy little exploit was one of the very reasons 3.0 got overhauled into 3.5.

Even so, if you're talking P&P, I still wouldn't like Rangers. I mean, have a druid collect the Track feat, and then hone skills like Survival, Listen, Knowledge (Nature), etc. You've then got a character that brings the perks of the Ranger to the party, and with more spellpower to show for it.

Thu, 28th Oct '04, 7:59am	#10
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Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 1:48pm	#1
Steeze Gems: 10/31 Latest gem: Zircon Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 374 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,281 Level: 12 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 20.94% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	hey all. im newish to iwd2, but ive played both bg games and i play an ad&d campaign with my friends reguraly, and rangers would have to be one of my fav classes, why does everyone think they are so bad in iwd2, i just dont understand.

Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 2:45pm	#2
Crom the Powerfull Gems: 3/31 Latest gem: Lynx Eye Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 73 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 510 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 11.21% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	They gain feats slower than fighters do They dont have any bonusses with the bow like they have in BG2. They dont get the feat 3rd slot in armor prof. Natural enemies only gets bonus to damage, not to hit IIRC Animal Empathy is not used at all or maybe 2 times in the game Tracking is kind os useless, you see what enemies there are in the area , once you face them Well, I just cant think anything good about them

Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 3:32pm	#3
Colthrun Walk first in the forest and last in the bog Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Posts: 1,856 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,206 Level: 20 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 55.21% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	@Crom the Powerfull Only the Archer kit had bonuses with bows in BG2, IIRC. Good things about rangers: 1- They get ambidexterity for free 2- They get some minor spells (try beast claw) 3- They can hide in shadows and scout 4- They are a very appropriate class to play in IW2, if you like role playing your characters.

Fri, 22nd Oct '04, 4:15pm	#4
chevalier SPS Account Holder Senior News Editor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: I wish I were in the land of coffee... Posts: 16,675 Like: 2 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 62,754 Level: 62 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 24.54% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	Like with paladins, most of rangers' benefits rely heavily upon character roleplaying and roleplaying opportunities, and that is hard to implement in a video game.

Sat, 23rd Oct '04, 9:46am	#5
Steeze Gems: 10/31 Latest gem: Zircon Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 374 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,281 Level: 12 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 20.94% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	ok then, so is it worth playing them in iwd2? any ideas on how to make them stronger?

Mon, 25th Oct '04, 3:40pm	#6
Vassago Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 140 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 637 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 96.58% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	Most people use the Ranger class as a mix-in. For example, I have a Wizard in my party who uses dual short swords. So instead of taking the two feats to allow this w/ minimum penalties, I mixed in a level of Ranger. IMO, it works well with a Wizard because of the Arcane Failure % brought on by armor and shields. Crueak Arborshate Male Drow Chaotic Evil Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Wizard X STR 10 DEX 20 CON 10 INT 20 WIS 10 CHA 10 Weapons: Dual Small Blades (Piercing), Quaterstaff (Bludgeoning), Bow (Missile (Piercing))

Mon, 25th Oct '04, 4:15pm	#7
chevalier SPS Account Holder Senior News Editor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: I wish I were in the land of coffee... Posts: 16,675 Like: 2 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 62,754 Level: 62 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 24.54% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	Wizard with two levels in the Rogue class (starting the game as level 1 Rogue for the skill points) is probably the best idea. Maybe one level of Barbarian if you aren't Lawful, for the speed increase. For more advanced (or daring) players, perhaps a Monk(1+)/Ranger would be a good idea, with lots of DEX and WIS, also using items like that ring which increases WIS by 5. Every God Ring or some such name. And Ranger spells aren't that bad... Fighter(4)/Ranger(x) instead of a DEX-based fighter also makes sense. Could even go Rogue(3)/Fighter(4)/Ranger(x), or even Rogue(3)/Barbarian(3)/Fighter(4)/Ranger(x).

Mon, 25th Oct '04, 4:51pm	#8
Nizidramanii'yt Gems: 10/31 Latest gem: Zircon Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brussels, the City of Colours Posts: 374 Like: 3 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,224 Level: 11 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 97.48% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 5.17% Achievements	It basically comes down to the fact that you shouldn't spend more than 1 level of ranger, just to profit from the 2 extra feats. Rangers gain feats slower, but the 2 xtra feats complement that.

Thu, 28th Oct '04, 3:06am	#9
Daragnia Onyj Snererme Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arizona, United States Posts: 31 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 409 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 33.49% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	Personally i have only had a good elf ranger in IWD one and thats about all he was a great archer but it seemed that they are the same as fighters just called rangers and dont get as many feats.

Fri, 29th Oct '04, 1:52am	#12
Daragnia Onyj Snererme Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arizona, United States Posts: 31 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 409 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 33.49% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 2.43% Monthly Activity 2.04% Achievements	yeah the only place you need tracking is in the lonleywood forest to find your way through and thats about it.

Fri, 29th Oct '04, 7:51am	#13
Beren SPS Account Holder Moderator\|Writer Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2,261 Like: 1 Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 6,824 Level: 25 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 33.45% Daily Activity 2.43% Weekly Activity 37.1% Monthly Activity 23.57% Achievements Awards	The only real use to a Ranger in IWD2 was to use one level on another character to get dual-wielding for free. This cheesy little exploit was one of the very reasons 3.0 got overhauled into 3.5. Even so, if you're talking P&P, I still wouldn't like Rangers. I mean, have a druid collect the Track feat, and then hone skills like Survival, Listen, Knowledge (Nature), etc. You've then got a character that brings the perks of the Ranger to the party, and with more spellpower to show for it.