EXP gain without muling

Sir Rechet · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 5:46am

Just for the heck of it, I've played through the game all the way to the time-loop (about halfway into Chapter 5), and lo and behold, just as I recovered the Holy Avenger, my first character hit her 21st level! And she's a Deep Gnome with a heavy ECL penalty as well!

No, I'm NOT doing any level-squatting or muling. Instead, I started the game as solo and played solo all the way to the Horde Fortress. I added one more character, and played duo all the way to the monastery. There I added two more characters, so my party became a quartet.

So.. reaching levels in the low 20's surely is possible in Normal mode. Just not for the whole group. But as we know, one high-level character can beat a party of mid-level characters pretty much all by herself so it pays off, IMHO.

Harbourboy · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 5:52am

Your findings are consistent with my experience of playing the game in a similar fashion.

Shrikant · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 6:27am

Cool!

I started a new game where I intend to do something similar. Except I cant but level-squat. Lets see when my Aasimar Paladin/Sorcerer gets L9 spells.

Tadidas · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 12:13pm

A question regarding lvl-squatting: Is there really a gain in the long run? I mean, let's say I squat 4 levels... That means my group is perhaps one lvl above what they should be (because they gain more xp). Consequently, they will gain even less xp then they normally would after they are done leveling up. Get my point?

Khazraj · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 12:39pm

You have a point, but if you want to hit level 30 before you normally could even in vanilla mode then squatting helps.

Sir Rechet · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 6:14pm

It depends on how you do your squatting. But generally, squatting nets you extra EXP. How much extra depends on how long you can keep on squatting until you cash in your reward.

Try playing through the Ice Temple with as low-level party as possible, as the various golems give huge EXP. Chapter 3 is pretty dry exp-wise, so it doesn't really matter if you squat it or not. You might as well, as it's not that tough either. And finally, chapter 4 is THE ultimate place to reap some great exp rewards from squatting, since you'll meet plenty of golems there.

Just don't forget that the standard issue Iron Golem is anything but a piece of cake for a low-level party. Anyone with less than 6 levels should stay away from them, as their Cloudkill means instant death without save.

And remember - you don't need to squat with your WHOLE group at once. Squat with half group, advance normally with the other half and you'll get the best of both worlds - good exp and at least a couple of characters that are high enough level to cope with the challenges.

Vigilance · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 7:48pm

Hmm, did you find then, that you were still gaining good exp throughout the ice temple? I did similiar to you with my party- only I squatted. I'm not sure how much more powerful that will make my party in the end, if even at all, but I stand pace to reach 20+ level easily with my main character, and likely with my secondary one as well.

Also, what difficulty did you play on? I'm really tempted to try insane, but it seems the monsters hit friggin hard as well as often and I've found little to no ways to boost my priests armor class other than through buffs, which don't last as long as I'd like and sadly he would still probably get hit hard in combat. Is it really neccessary to have a deep gnome main pc if I wanted such a party? Heh, sorry to fire off question after question as I'm usually pretty knowledgeable about ie games and powergaming but I just haven't gotten through iwd2 in so long that at times I feel my knowledge is sadly lacking.

Sir Rechet · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 7:57pm

I have to admit that the EXP gains from killing monsters has been rather minimal for my party, but since I made it to level 21 in Kuldahar, I guess it didn't matter that much in the end. My second character (also a deep gnome) is at level 18, and the two last ones (both drows) are at level 11.

Had I been squatting my extra characters (that is, using them as mules) I added along the way, I'd most likely be at or very close to level 30 with my main character by now.

Vigilance · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 8:03pm

Crazy. My human cleric of lathander was level 16 by chapter three using muling/squatting. Although his leveling has seemed to slow down a lot since ice temple.

Vassago · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 9:37pm

Quote:

Also, what difficulty did you play on? I'm really tempted to try insane...

Playing on insane mode won't increase your xp. That was one of the things that changed from IWD to IWD2. XP is the same except for in HOF mode, I think.

chevalier · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 11:44pm

The idea is that your average party level counts in XP calculations. A second, low level, character lowers the mean and enables you to gain more XP for kills... or any XP at all.

Vigilance · Fri, 17th Sep '04, 11:48pm

Well I know that with insane, I was just considering throwing it up there to have more challenge. Yet when I did, it seemed my guys got torn up real fast by mobs of enemies because my armor class is pretty terrible with my cleric and so he has a bit of trouble against high damage enemies. Insane is obviously much less..erm insane then hof, but I imagine you need a high ac tank/decoy type character to play in it as well. Either that or lots of arcane casters to quickly end fights.

Tadidas · Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 6:41pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but some quests render the same amount of xp no matter what level of the party members?

Shrikant · Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 7:02pm

Its only the quest reward XP that will remain constant regardless of your average party level.
In places like the Shanegarne bridge, it depends on the manner in which you finished the quest.
XP from killing monsters is dependant on your average party level.

chevalier · Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 7:07pm

Level is used for XP from kills. Quest XP is fixed AFAIK.

Sir Rechet · Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 12:01am

Quest EXP is fixed and the amount is divided amongst your party members, not given to all like in BG2.

If you do all the quests available in the game, always picking the path that gives the most EXP, you'll end up with just over 300,000 quest EXP during the game, and another 300,000 EXP again in HOF mode. (Take a look in JUPP for more detailed breakdown.)

For a solo character, quest EXP is by far the largest source of EXP during the game. Conversely, the more you have characters, especially ones with stiff ECL penalties, the more you'll be receiving EXP from monsters.

Shrikant · Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 10:27am

So a solo can get to ECL24? In Normal? On only Quest XP?
Why are we worrying about XP for kills then

Tadidas · Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 5:59pm

Yeah I was thinking about that. Then it does make sense to make a small party after all =) Well, guess I have to do my duty and enter the dreaded Dragon's Eye. My fighter(8)/rogue(8) and the others gain no xp at all these hard times. Is that a decent level at this stage (16 levels up) for him?

Vassago · Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 6:46pm

Quote:

Why are we worrying about XP for kills then?

Because we want to be rewarded for slaying all those creatures.

Sir Rechet · Sat, 25th Sep '04, 3:46am

Also, a solo character most likely isn't a diplomat type that can get access to all that quest EXP... A non-diplomat can only get 290,000 or so..

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Fri, 17th Sep '04, 5:46am	#1
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.79% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 4.52% Achievements	Just for the heck of it, I've played through the game all the way to the time-loop (about halfway into Chapter 5), and lo and behold, just as I recovered the Holy Avenger, my first character hit her 21st level! And she's a Deep Gnome with a heavy ECL penalty as well! No, I'm NOT doing any level-squatting or muling. Instead, I started the game as solo and played solo all the way to the Horde Fortress. I added one more character, and played duo all the way to the monastery. There I added two more characters, so my party became a quartet. So.. reaching levels in the low 20's surely is possible in Normal mode. Just not for the whole group. But as we know, one high-level character can beat a party of mid-level characters pretty much all by herself so it pays off, IMHO.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 5:52am	#2
Harbourboy SPS Account Holder Take thy form from off my door! Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Harbour Posts: 13,245 Like: 59 Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 28,241 Level: 45 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 75.36% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 12.06% Achievements Awards	Your findings are consistent with my experience of playing the game in a similar fashion.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 6:27am	#3
Shrikant Gems: 27/31 Latest gem: Emerald Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bombay,India Posts: 2,615 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,878 Level: 23 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 76.16% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Cool! I started a new game where I intend to do something similar. Except I cant but level-squat. Lets see when my Aasimar Paladin/Sorcerer gets L9 spells.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 12:13pm	#4
Tadidas Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 39 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 430 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	A question regarding lvl-squatting: Is there really a gain in the long run? I mean, let's say I squat 4 levels... That means my group is perhaps one lvl above what they should be (because they gain more xp). Consequently, they will gain even less xp then they normally would after they are done leveling up. Get my point?

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 12:39pm	#5
Khazraj Gems: 20/31 Latest gem: Garnet Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,257 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,632 Level: 19 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 28.15% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	You have a point, but if you want to hit level 30 before you normally could even in vanilla mode then squatting helps.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 6:14pm	#6
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.79% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 4.52% Achievements	It depends on how you do your squatting. But generally, squatting nets you extra EXP. How much extra depends on how long you can keep on squatting until you cash in your reward. Try playing through the Ice Temple with as low-level party as possible, as the various golems give huge EXP. Chapter 3 is pretty dry exp-wise, so it doesn't really matter if you squat it or not. You might as well, as it's not that tough either. And finally, chapter 4 is THE ultimate place to reap some great exp rewards from squatting, since you'll meet plenty of golems there. Just don't forget that the standard issue Iron Golem is anything but a piece of cake for a low-level party. Anyone with less than 6 levels should stay away from them, as their Cloudkill means instant death without save. And remember - you don't need to squat with your WHOLE group at once. Squat with half group, advance normally with the other half and you'll get the best of both worlds - good exp and at least a couple of characters that are high enough level to cope with the challenges.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 7:48pm	#7
Vigilance Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 49 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 494 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0.81% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Hmm, did you find then, that you were still gaining good exp throughout the ice temple? I did similiar to you with my party- only I squatted. I'm not sure how much more powerful that will make my party in the end, if even at all, but I stand pace to reach 20+ level easily with my main character, and likely with my secondary one as well. Also, what difficulty did you play on? I'm really tempted to try insane, but it seems the monsters hit friggin hard as well as often and I've found little to no ways to boost my priests armor class other than through buffs, which don't last as long as I'd like and sadly he would still probably get hit hard in combat. Is it really neccessary to have a deep gnome main pc if I wanted such a party? Heh, sorry to fire off question after question as I'm usually pretty knowledgeable about ie games and powergaming but I just haven't gotten through iwd2 in so long that at times I feel my knowledge is sadly lacking.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 7:57pm	#8
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.79% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 4.52% Achievements	I have to admit that the EXP gains from killing monsters has been rather minimal for my party, but since I made it to level 21 in Kuldahar, I guess it didn't matter that much in the end. My second character (also a deep gnome) is at level 18, and the two last ones (both drows) are at level 11. Had I been squatting my extra characters (that is, using them as mules) I added along the way, I'd most likely be at or very close to level 30 with my main character by now.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 8:03pm	#9
Vigilance Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 49 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 494 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0.81% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Crazy. My human cleric of lathander was level 16 by chapter three using muling/squatting. Although his leveling has seemed to slow down a lot since ice temple.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 11:44pm	#11
chevalier SPS Account Holder Senior News Editor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: I wish I were in the land of coffee... Posts: 16,675 Like: 2 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 62,757 Level: 62 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 24.63% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	The idea is that your average party level counts in XP calculations. A second, low level, character lowers the mean and enables you to gain more XP for kills... or any XP at all.

Fri, 17th Sep '04, 11:48pm	#12
Vigilance Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 49 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 494 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 0.81% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Well I know that with insane, I was just considering throwing it up there to have more challenge. Yet when I did, it seemed my guys got torn up real fast by mobs of enemies because my armor class is pretty terrible with my cleric and so he has a bit of trouble against high damage enemies. Insane is obviously much less..erm insane then hof, but I imagine you need a high ac tank/decoy type character to play in it as well. Either that or lots of arcane casters to quickly end fights.

Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 6:41pm	#13
Tadidas Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 39 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 430 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Correct me if I'm wrong, but some quests render the same amount of xp no matter what level of the party members?

Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 7:02pm	#14
Shrikant Gems: 27/31 Latest gem: Emerald Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bombay,India Posts: 2,615 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,878 Level: 23 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 76.16% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Its only the quest reward XP that will remain constant regardless of your average party level. In places like the Shanegarne bridge, it depends on the manner in which you finished the quest. XP from killing monsters is dependant on your average party level.

Wed, 22nd Sep '04, 7:07pm	#15
chevalier SPS Account Holder Senior News Editor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: I wish I were in the land of coffee... Posts: 16,675 Like: 2 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 62,757 Level: 62 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 24.63% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Level is used for XP from kills. Quest XP is fixed AFAIK.

Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 12:01am	#16
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.79% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 4.52% Achievements	Quest EXP is fixed and the amount is divided amongst your party members, not given to all like in BG2. If you do all the quests available in the game, always picking the path that gives the most EXP, you'll end up with just over 300,000 quest EXP during the game, and another 300,000 EXP again in HOF mode. (Take a look in JUPP for more detailed breakdown.) For a solo character, quest EXP is by far the largest source of EXP during the game. Conversely, the more you have characters, especially ones with stiff ECL penalties, the more you'll be receiving EXP from monsters.

Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 10:27am	#17
Shrikant Gems: 27/31 Latest gem: Emerald Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bombay,India Posts: 2,615 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,878 Level: 23 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 76.16% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	So a solo can get to ECL24? In Normal? On only Quest XP? Why are we worrying about XP for kills then

Thu, 23rd Sep '04, 5:59pm	#18
Tadidas Gems: 2/31 Latest gem: Fire Agate Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 39 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 430 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 50% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 1.29% Monthly Activity 1.51% Achievements	Yeah I was thinking about that. Then it does make sense to make a small party after all =) Well, guess I have to do my duty and enter the dreaded Dragon's Eye. My fighter(8)/rogue(8) and the others gain no xp at all these hard times. Is that a decent level at this stage (16 levels up) for him?

Sat, 25th Sep '04, 3:46am	#20
Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,186 Like: 2 Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,954 Level: 17 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 61.79% Daily Activity 2.26% Weekly Activity 14.21% Monthly Activity 4.52% Achievements	Also, a solo character most likely isn't a diplomat type that can get access to all that quest EXP... A non-diplomat can only get 290,000 or so..