Elminster vs Rand Al Thor. Who would win

casey · Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:07am

*************NOSPOILERS******************

Pretty much what the topic say's, who would win?

I dont know a lot about Elminster and the only thing I know about Rand is what I read in the first book and that he can pretty much wipe out an army at the wave of his hand

Silverwolf86 · Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:18am

Rand. Without a doubt, Rand. He's got more power and more variety on what he can do. Granted by the end of the first book he's not very experienced so Elminster could probably take on Rand then but certainly not later. Besides that Rand's also a master swordsman so even if you took away his powers he could take on Elminster with all sorts of crazy tricks.

Shura · Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:43am

Without Rand's One Power boosting angreal, Elminster will win. That gandalf rip-off is simply so absurdly powerful he could virtually take on gods. He's immune to Balefire with his Chosen of Mystra template (immune to disintegrating effects) and no way things like Compulsion, etc will overcome Elminster's Will save.

Weaving Fire, Earth etc? Globe of Invulnerability. Air, Water? Ditto. Elminster uses Silver Fire, crashing through all of Rand's protections. Fried Dragon.

Hence, Rand is no match for Elminster.

casey · Fri, 28th Nov '03, 3:39am

Balefire? Chosen of Mystra template? Compulsion? I have no idea what these are.
Any website's where I can find out or will I have to read the book's?

Shura · Fri, 28th Nov '03, 4:24am

Alright, I just reread the first post and realised that you have not even begun on the 2nd book of the Wheel of Time.

Rand'al Thor's power in the Eye of the World is not his. He is merely utilising the power stored in the Eye to decimate the Shadowspawn army. After that, it is gone forever. But you do find out that he is a male Channeler in the 1st book.

Elminster is the Chosen (and sextoy) of Mystra, the goddess of magic and one of the mightiest deities in the Forgotten Realms pantheon. This status alone grants him immunity to almost everything that can be achieved with the One Power. He can level armies of Beholders, Dracoliches, Mindflayers, and Dragons singlehandly and he does so in some of his novels. Personally, I hate his guts.

Read on and you'll know more. Yes, Rand becomes uberly powerful later but Elminster is just so much of a munchkin that nothing can beat him. When all else fails, Elminster just pulls a goddess out of his pocket to help him.

As for the books, just check out SP's books section.

The Elminster novels are horrendously boring beyond the first two, though. But little better can be said of the WOT after book 5.

iLLusioN' · Mon, 1st Dec '03, 1:19am

****************SPOILER**************

i would bet that by the 9th WoT book Rand could beat him with the male Choedan Kal(i think thats their name)You know Those Huge statue sa'angreal

@Shura
i have to disagree with the book 5 part, i was hooked till 7. 8 however, was horrendous.

joacqin · Mon, 1st Dec '03, 9:16am

Shura, balefire isnt a desintegrating effect. It is an erasing effect, it removes something from reality back in time. Nothing is immune to balefire, in any fantasy world.
(I cant believe I am actually discussing this)

Strifestrike · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 4:17am

What about Deltrophan, could he beat elminster? Im just curious on this one.

casey · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 12:08pm

What about Elminster vs the sniper rifle?

The sniper rifle is a non-enchanted weapon so prot. from magic weapons won't work and is hardly a "normal" weapon in Elminsters timeline.

They can shoot through Kevlar armor with no trouble so stoneskin's ditto.

Someone can shoot Elminster with it over a mile away.

Shura · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 1:05pm

The hand of Mystra would descend from the heavens and crush the sniper if he even thought of such a thing.

Besides, with Elminster's CON score, he can probably survive multiple sniper bullets to the head provided they can get through all his perpetually active protection spells.

I'm not an Elminster fanboy. I hate his guts and his utterly unbalanced stats that stupid fanboy DMs can use against players.

casey · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 1:20pm

But remember Shura that his protection's are useless because like I said a sniper is not enchanted and definately not normal in that period of time.

How strong could a 1000+ year old person be?

And I checked SK to see Elminsters stat's and his con doesn't look special. If elminsters a human then one clear shot to his head should kill him, or is he really that stupidly overpowered?

Taza · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:09pm

Elminster is 2000+ years, and he is so unbalanced...

In BG/BG2 Elminster has immunity against reload...

So Rand with all his power and equipment vs. Elminster?

Rand.

Rand without his equipment vs. Elminster?

Elminster.

Shura · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:22pm

Look at his stats in D&D 3rd edition. You can find them in the Epic Level Handbook. Yikes! 35th level character who can outfight, outcast, outheal, and out-thief almost anybody.

Talk about Ed Greenwood's ultimate powertrip! But then again, it is every author's prerogative to make their own uber avatar.

Sniper Rifle? No problem. Epic Contingency: Meta-magic Timestop. Condition: any object approaching him above a certain speed. Whatever your stand on magic is, a bullet still counts as a material item and thus triggers his contingency.

He probably has an Epic spell researched allowing him to have a few thousand contingencies and spell triggers active at once and self-renewing upon being triggered.

Followed by a enlarged, enhanced disintegrate ray that has a range of over 1 kilometer and you have sniper dust.

Oh yeah, I forgot that he has an item that renders him absolutely invulnerable to projectiles.

He IS that overpowered.

casey · Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:46pm

Nuke the bastard

No doubt Elminster's immune to nukes as well.

Or how about all the world's army's?

are you sure your not exagerating Shura?

Shura · Wed, 3rd Dec '03, 1:23am

Nuke? Quickened Teleport.

Army primarily made up of level 1 or 2 fighters/warriors or commoners? Enlarged Death Spell, Fireball, Chain Lightning, etc.

You don't need Elminster for that. Your standard Lv 20 wizard can do the same.

I'm not exagerating.

*Realises just what a D&D geek he is*
Sigh.

casey · Thu, 4th Dec '03, 11:00am

I know I know!!!

SPAM HIM TO DEATH

Nothing compares to the power of spam.

And if he survives the spam force him to listen to Britney Spears and Kylie Minouge music all day everyday (sp?) not even the gods themselves could survive, and if he does he will be under a permanent feeblemind spell

[Ironic that you should mention the word spam in this post ... hint, hint. ] - Beren

[ December 04, 2003, 20:14: Message edited by: Beren ]

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Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:07am	#1
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	***********NOSPOILERS**************** Pretty much what the topic say's, who would win? I dont know a lot about Elminster and the only thing I know about Rand is what I read in the first book and that he can pretty much wipe out an army at the wave of his hand

Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:18am	#2
Silverwolf86 Gems: 6/31 Latest gem: Jasper Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Alternating between Westbubble, Massachusetts in the U.S. and Ecruos. :) Posts: 185 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 752 Level: 9 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 63.95% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Rand. Without a doubt, Rand. He's got more power and more variety on what he can do. Granted by the end of the first book he's not very experienced so Elminster could probably take on Rand then but certainly not later. Besides that Rand's also a master swordsman so even if you took away his powers he could take on Elminster with all sorts of crazy tricks.

Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:43am	#3
Shura Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meifumado, realm between the Hells. Posts: 2,047 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,129 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 40.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Without Rand's One Power boosting angreal, Elminster will win. That gandalf rip-off is simply so absurdly powerful he could virtually take on gods. He's immune to Balefire with his Chosen of Mystra template (immune to disintegrating effects) and no way things like Compulsion, etc will overcome Elminster's Will save. Weaving Fire, Earth etc? Globe of Invulnerability. Air, Water? Ditto. Elminster uses Silver Fire, crashing through all of Rand's protections. Fried Dragon. Hence, Rand is no match for Elminster.

Fri, 28th Nov '03, 3:39am	#4
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Balefire? Chosen of Mystra template? Compulsion? I have no idea what these are. Any website's where I can find out or will I have to read the book's?

Fri, 28th Nov '03, 4:24am	#5
Shura Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meifumado, realm between the Hells. Posts: 2,047 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,129 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 40.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Alright, I just reread the first post and realised that you have not even begun on the 2nd book of the Wheel of Time. Rand'al Thor's power in the Eye of the World is not his. He is merely utilising the power stored in the Eye to decimate the Shadowspawn army. After that, it is gone forever. But you do find out that he is a male Channeler in the 1st book. Elminster is the Chosen (and sextoy) of Mystra, the goddess of magic and one of the mightiest deities in the Forgotten Realms pantheon. This status alone grants him immunity to almost everything that can be achieved with the One Power. He can level armies of Beholders, Dracoliches, Mindflayers, and Dragons singlehandly and he does so in some of his novels. Personally, I hate his guts. Read on and you'll know more. Yes, Rand becomes uberly powerful later but Elminster is just so much of a munchkin that nothing can beat him. When all else fails, Elminster just pulls a goddess out of his pocket to help him. As for the books, just check out SP's books section. The Elminster novels are horrendously boring beyond the first two, though. But little better can be said of the WOT after book 5.

Mon, 1st Dec '03, 1:19am	#6
iLLusioN' Gems: 16/31 Latest gem: Shandon Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 817 Like: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,196 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 47.1% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	**************SPOILER************ i would bet that by the 9th WoT book Rand could beat him with the male Choedan Kal(i think thats their name)You know Those Huge statue sa'angreal @Shura i have to disagree with the book 5 part, i was hooked till 7. 8 however, was horrendous.

Mon, 1st Dec '03, 9:16am	#7
joacqin Confused Jerk Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Helsingborg, Sweden Posts: 6,045 Like: 8 Liked 13 Times in 12 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 14,082 Level: 34 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 43.58% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 32.31% Monthly Activity 51.95% Achievements Awards	Shura, balefire isnt a desintegrating effect. It is an erasing effect, it removes something from reality back in time. Nothing is immune to balefire, in any fantasy world. (I cant believe I am actually discussing this)

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 4:17am	#8
Strifestrike Gems: 7/31 Latest gem: Tchazar Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 247 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 888 Level: 10 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 37.6% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	What about Deltrophan, could he beat elminster? Im just curious on this one.

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 12:08pm	#9
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	What about Elminster vs the sniper rifle? The sniper rifle is a non-enchanted weapon so prot. from magic weapons won't work and is hardly a "normal" weapon in Elminsters timeline. They can shoot through Kevlar armor with no trouble so stoneskin's ditto. Someone can shoot Elminster with it over a mile away.

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 1:05pm	#10
Shura Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meifumado, realm between the Hells. Posts: 2,047 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,129 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 40.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	The hand of Mystra would descend from the heavens and crush the sniper if he even thought of such a thing. Besides, with Elminster's CON score, he can probably survive multiple sniper bullets to the head provided they can get through all his perpetually active protection spells. I'm not an Elminster fanboy. I hate his guts and his utterly unbalanced stats that stupid fanboy DMs can use against players.

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 1:20pm	#11
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	But remember Shura that his protection's are useless because like I said a sniper is not enchanted and definately not normal in that period of time. How strong could a 1000+ year old person be? And I checked SK to see Elminsters stat's and his con doesn't look special. If elminsters a human then one clear shot to his head should kill him, or is he really that stupidly overpowered?

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:09pm	#12
Taza Weird Modmaker Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 1,440 Like: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,561 Level: 19 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Elminster is 2000+ years, and he is so unbalanced... In BG/BG2 Elminster has immunity against reload... So Rand with all his power and equipment vs. Elminster? Rand. Rand without his equipment vs. Elminster? Elminster.

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:22pm	#13
Shura Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meifumado, realm between the Hells. Posts: 2,047 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,129 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 40.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Look at his stats in D&D 3rd edition. You can find them in the Epic Level Handbook. Yikes! 35th level character who can outfight, outcast, outheal, and out-thief almost anybody. Talk about Ed Greenwood's ultimate powertrip! But then again, it is every author's prerogative to make their own uber avatar. Sniper Rifle? No problem. Epic Contingency: Meta-magic Timestop. Condition: any object approaching him above a certain speed. Whatever your stand on magic is, a bullet still counts as a material item and thus triggers his contingency. He probably has an Epic spell researched allowing him to have a few thousand contingencies and spell triggers active at once and self-renewing upon being triggered. Followed by a enlarged, enhanced disintegrate ray that has a range of over 1 kilometer and you have sniper dust. Oh yeah, I forgot that he has an item that renders him absolutely invulnerable to projectiles. He IS that overpowered.

Tue, 2nd Dec '03, 2:46pm	#14
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Nuke the bastard No doubt Elminster's immune to nukes as well. Or how about all the world's army's? are you sure your not exagerating Shura?

Wed, 3rd Dec '03, 1:23am	#15
Shura Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meifumado, realm between the Hells. Posts: 2,047 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,129 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 40.11% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	Nuke? Quickened Teleport. Army primarily made up of level 1 or 2 fighters/warriors or commoners? Enlarged Death Spell, Fireball, Chain Lightning, etc. You don't need Elminster for that. Your standard Lv 20 wizard can do the same. I'm not exagerating. Realises just what a D&D geek he is Sigh.

Thu, 4th Dec '03, 11:00am	#16
casey Gems: 15/31 Latest gem: Waterstar Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 704 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,320 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 85.56% Daily Activity 3.42% Weekly Activity 2.94% Monthly Activity 2.76% Achievements	I know I know!!! SPAM HIM TO DEATH Nothing compares to the power of spam. And if he survives the spam force him to listen to Britney Spears and Kylie Minouge music all day everyday (sp?) not even the gods themselves could survive, and if he does he will be under a permanent feeblemind spell [Ironic that you should mention the word spam in this post ... hint, hint. ] - Beren [ December 04, 2003, 20:14: Message edited by: Beren ]