Martha Stewart

The Great Snook · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:34pm

So I'm curious what everyones take on her conviction is.

Here is my spin.

She didn't do anything that anyone else wouldn't have done. If my broker called me up and told me to sell or buy because he knew something I'm sure I would follow his advice.

I think the only thing I would have done differently is I would have either pleaded the fifth amendment or I would have co-operated with the feds and paid a fine.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why she didn't do either of the above. I have to assume her attorney suggested those options.

Late-Night Thinker · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:42pm

In order to protect her public image, she agreed to interviews with the Feds in which she was rather candid. Just goes to show you...NEVER, EVER, EVER TALK TO THE COPS!

Dragon's Jewel · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:49pm

The biggest point is that it's something that's illegal... but that most people would do anyway. So they 'go after' Stewart, who admittedly didn't handle the situation well, and one could say the basic gist was to prove a point. There's plenty of cases where a well known public figure has done something very similiar (both Bush and H. Clinton, just to name some political figures) and nothing was done to retaliate. Not to the extent of Stewart, at least. To give a (somewhat vulgar) comparison, it's like the sex laws that either are still on or were recently taken off most states books... you knew about them, but how many people are going to worry about getting busted for sleeping with someone 'in the daylight hours'? Many stock market laws are the same way, and Stewart just started out by doing what (almost, I suppose) any other person would have done...

Chandos the Red · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:57pm

I really agree with Dragon's Jewel and that pretty much sums up my feeling as well. I would add that she was on the Board of the Stock Exchange, and that she knew full-well what she was doing. But with that said, they are making an example of her because she's such an easy mark.

Rallymama · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:30pm

I'll say she was an easy mark. The best thing her defense team could come up with for a closing argument was that she couldn't be guilty because she's too smart to have committed this crime?! Oh sure, Councillor, that will really engender a LOT of sympathy for your client.

Rednik · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:39pm

Personally, I believe that Martha Stewart should go to jail. However, this isn't a big priority, because what the thieves at Enron did was worse, but they have more connections.

The Great Snook · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:57pm

I totally disagree with your Enron statement. I do not believe a single person has been found innocent in a trial relating to Enron. So far all of the lower fish have been turning states evidence for reduced sentences. It is only a matter of time before Ken Lay gets his chance. Now that will be a trial for the ages.

Taluntain · Mon, 8th Mar '04, 10:58pm

Quote:

The best thing her defense team could come up with for a closing argument was that she couldn't be guilty because she's too smart to have committed this crime?!

Maybe they should have hired the guy who writes closing arguments for The Praxis... Along with the actors...

Blackhawk · Tue, 9th Mar '04, 1:15am

The main crime she was found guilty of was "Obstruction of Justice" - not Insider Trading. Her coverup was illegal - VERY illegal.

She is now a convicted felon, and ironicially, cannot serve on the Board of her company.

Let her rot in prison.

Rednik · Tue, 9th Mar '04, 3:25am

Yeah, I but I mean Ken Lay, the convictions for the men on the lower rungs of the conspircacy are getting what they deserve, but I fear Ken Lay and the big fish might get away, or they might appeal until everyone loses intrest, although that's rather easy due to 9/11 overshadowing the Enron conspiracy.

ejsmith · Tue, 9th Mar '04, 4:36am

Let's say I have a load of stock. Figure, 500,000 shares of msft. Now, some Joe Freakin' Schmoe calls me on the phone, and tells me to sell my stock like crazy.

If I take his advice, and he's just some Joe Freakin' Schmoe, then nothing comes of it. Sure, the SEC checks into me. And they check Joe's story. Then they see who Joe got his information from. And it turns out to be a stock broker.

They go after the stock broker, and they go after me.

That's the game. It in there to get some deterrence on both sides of insider trading. They make it worth the stock broker's time, and they make it worth the stock holder's time, to stay away from insider trading. You can get information from the actual company CEO. Or the President. Or the Chairman of the Board. Just not another broker. Not even your broker. That's the deal, and if you're not prepared to play by those rules, then the idea is you don't play at all.

Martha was pulling insider trading, and that was never a question. They just decided they couldn't prove that. So they proved she was lying, under oath.

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Cover Girl!
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[ March 09, 2004, 04:57: Message edited by: ejsmith ]

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Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:34pm	#1
The Great Snook Gems: 30/31 Latest gem: King's Tears Join Date: May 2003 Location: West of Boston MA Posts: 3,627 Blog Entries: 15 Like: 19 Liked 43 Times in 27 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 11,284 Level: 31 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 38.38% Daily Activity 69.54% Weekly Activity 39.79% Monthly Activity 79.74% Achievements	So I'm curious what everyones take on her conviction is. Here is my spin. She didn't do anything that anyone else wouldn't have done. If my broker called me up and told me to sell or buy because he knew something I'm sure I would follow his advice. I think the only thing I would have done differently is I would have either pleaded the fifth amendment or I would have co-operated with the feds and paid a fine. For the life of me, I can't figure out why she didn't do either of the above. I have to assume her attorney suggested those options.

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:42pm	#2
Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31 Latest gem: Star Diopside Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lehigh Valley USA Posts: 991 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,713 Level: 16 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 98.2% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	In order to protect her public image, she agreed to interviews with the Feds in which she was rather candid. Just goes to show you...NEVER, EVER, EVER TALK TO THE COPS!

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:49pm	#3
Dragon's Jewel Gems: 14/31 Latest gem: Chrysoberyl Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alan Rickman's closet Posts: 634 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,843 Level: 14 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 32.54% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	The biggest point is that it's something that's illegal... but that most people would do anyway. So they 'go after' Stewart, who admittedly didn't handle the situation well, and one could say the basic gist was to prove a point. There's plenty of cases where a well known public figure has done something very similiar (both Bush and H. Clinton, just to name some political figures) and nothing was done to retaliate. Not to the extent of Stewart, at least. To give a (somewhat vulgar) comparison, it's like the sex laws that either are still on or were recently taken off most states books... you knew about them, but how many people are going to worry about getting busted for sleeping with someone 'in the daylight hours'? Many stock market laws are the same way, and Stewart just started out by doing what (almost, I suppose) any other person would have done...

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 5:57pm	#4
Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 8,209 Like: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post vBActivity - Stats XP: 21,118 Level: 40 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 69.58% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	I really agree with Dragon's Jewel and that pretty much sums up my feeling as well. I would add that she was on the Board of the Stock Exchange, and that she knew full-well what she was doing. But with that said, they are making an example of her because she's such an easy mark.

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:30pm	#5
Rallymama O Fortuna, velat Luna, statu variabilis Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever I go, there I am Posts: 4,329 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,533 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 22.49% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	I'll say she was an easy mark. The best thing her defense team could come up with for a closing argument was that she couldn't be guilty because she's too smart to have committed this crime?! Oh sure, Councillor, that will really engender a LOT of sympathy for your client.

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:39pm	#6
Rednik Gems: 21/31 Latest gem: Pearl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vault 13 Posts: 1,340 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,128 Level: 18 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 7.02% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	Personally, I believe that Martha Stewart should go to jail. However, this isn't a big priority, because what the thieves at Enron did was worse, but they have more connections.

Mon, 8th Mar '04, 6:57pm	#7
The Great Snook Gems: 30/31 Latest gem: King's Tears Join Date: May 2003 Location: West of Boston MA Posts: 3,627 Blog Entries: 15 Like: 19 Liked 43 Times in 27 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 11,284 Level: 31 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 38.38% Daily Activity 69.54% Weekly Activity 39.79% Monthly Activity 79.74% Achievements	I totally disagree with your Enron statement. I do not believe a single person has been found innocent in a trial relating to Enron. So far all of the lower fish have been turning states evidence for reduced sentences. It is only a matter of time before Ken Lay gets his chance. Now that will be a trial for the ages.

Tue, 9th Mar '04, 1:15am	#9
Blackhawk Gems: 14/31 Latest gem: Chrysoberyl Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 689 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 2,055 Level: 15 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 3.61% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	The main crime she was found guilty of was "Obstruction of Justice" - not Insider Trading. Her coverup was illegal - VERY illegal. She is now a convicted felon, and ironicially, cannot serve on the Board of her company. Let her rot in prison.

Tue, 9th Mar '04, 3:25am	#10
Rednik Gems: 21/31 Latest gem: Pearl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vault 13 Posts: 1,340 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 3,128 Level: 18 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 7.02% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	Yeah, I but I mean Ken Lay, the convictions for the men on the lower rungs of the conspircacy are getting what they deserve, but I fear Ken Lay and the big fish might get away, or they might appeal until everyone loses intrest, although that's rather easy due to 9/11 overshadowing the Enron conspiracy.

Tue, 9th Mar '04, 4:36am	#11
ejsmith Gems: 25/31 Latest gem: Moonbar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Over the rainbow Posts: 2,238 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,128 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 39.83% Daily Activity 3.31% Weekly Activity 1.89% Monthly Activity 2.46% Achievements	Let's say I have a load of stock. Figure, 500,000 shares of msft. Now, some Joe Freakin' Schmoe calls me on the phone, and tells me to sell my stock like crazy. If I take his advice, and he's just some Joe Freakin' Schmoe, then nothing comes of it. Sure, the SEC checks into me. And they check Joe's story. Then they see who Joe got his information from. And it turns out to be a stock broker. They go after the stock broker, and they go after me. That's the game. It in there to get some deterrence on both sides of insider trading. They make it worth the stock broker's time, and they make it worth the stock holder's time, to stay away from insider trading. You can get information from the actual company CEO. Or the President. Or the Chairman of the Board. Just not another broker. Not even your broker. That's the deal, and if you're not prepared to play by those rules, then the idea is you don't play at all. Martha was pulling insider trading, and that was never a question. They just decided they couldn't prove that. So they proved she was lying, under oath. Hot Martha Porn! Cover Girl! Comic Section! [ March 09, 2004, 04:57: Message edited by: ejsmith ]