Wrestling: Random babbling

[Disciple of The Watch]

Care to give a list of the 5 TNA wrestlers that can make the best faces in the company

No. I'm gonna give you a list of the five wrestler that makes the best HEELS in the company instead:

UNDISPUTED #1- Christian Cage
2- Robert Roode
3- James Storm
4- Brother Ray/Devon
5- Christopher Daniels

Special mention to Black Reign.

But since you asked, I'll try and make a face top 5:

1- Stink
2- Samoa Joe
3- Curry Man
4- Motor City Machine Suck
5- Rhino

Daniels gets a mention in both categories because of the two personas: the badass Fallen Angel and the sickeningly entertaining Curry Man.

I couldn't stand Ray/Devon, but since they turned heel, I DIG those guys.

Robert Roode is rising to one of the best heels since Christian Cage.

Storm needs to be pushed properly.

Stink? This guy's a natural face.

Joe? If seeing him as WHC is the price to pay not to have a WWE reject holding the belt, so be it.

The Motor City Machine Suck put on an at best crappy hardcore street fight against 3D, but they fought to save their bunch of stinking crap of a division. If I want to see abunch of monkeys flying around, I'll go to the f****** zoo.

Rhino? Yeah, we all heard about your problems with booze, how it costed you your family... and I could care less! Rhino, the righter of wrongs, will GORE the hell out of you!

[Gnarfflinger]

Heels:

1 Squirt Angle. He uses Flair's old trick of drawing the attention away from his wrestling abilities and makes opponents pay for it. I hope they're serious about Samoa Joe beating him through.
2 Judas Messias. According to DotW, he has quite the resume, and with James Mitchell guiding him, he can become the pre-eminent monster in the company.
3 Robert Roode. Makes a nice bully. Easy for fans to hate this self important blowhard.
4 Hooker B. He has main event experience and sucks as a face.
5 James Storm. More by default than anything. Upper Mid card at best since AMW broke up.

Faces:

1: AJ Styles. This guy was the face of TNA once upon a time, but now he's just a lap dog to Angle? WTF?
2: Kaz. This guy has taken huge steps forward, and I'd like to see what he can do.
3: Eric Young. Man do they ever need to fire Russo...
4: Shark boy. They give this guy a personality and an attitude, what's next? Let him use a wrestling hold?
5: Jay Lethal. He just needs to get rid of the Black Machismo Gimmik and get back to wrestling.

Tweeners, or people that can feud with anyone credibly.

1: Christian Cage. Has the mouth to get reactions and the ability to back it up.
2: Samoa Joe. Joe's gonna Kill you!
3: Rhyno. The Former ECW champ needs to gore the hell out of anyone that pisses him off.
4: The Duddley Boyz. They need to put everyone and their dogs through Flaming tack tables...
5: LAX. Talent, mean streak, a hot babe, they have it all--except for the right matches...

Notable abscences:

Stink, Kevin Trash, Big Poppa Chump: Why are they there?

Abyss, Petey Williams, Christopher Daniels: Great talent, but why is Russo still in TNA?

[Disciple of The Watch]

According to DotW, he has quite the resume, and with James Mitchell guiding him, he can become the pre-eminent monster in the company.

My thoughts exactly... but Mesias has been released. He was working on a per-appearance base and did not wanted to sign a TNA contract because it would have locked him in TNA. Mesias also wrestles in AAA, and who runs AAA? Konnan. TNA and Konnan did NOT part ways under friendly terms, so TNA does not it's wrestlers to be in AAA.

As for his resume, here's all his titles reigns:

- IWA World Tag Team Championship (5 times) – with Gran Apolo (3), Glamour Boy Shane (1) and Cruzz (1)
- IWA World Heavyweight Championship (5 times)
- IWA Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
- IWA Hardcore Championship (9 times)
- WSX Championship (1 time) - last
- AAA World Heavyweight Championship (1 time, current) (First)
- GPCW Super-X Monster Championship (1 time, current)
- IWC World Heavyweight Championship (1 time, current)

That's over 25 title reigns, three of those being current. Mesias holds three different titles in three different promotions.

Abyss is off for a few months. I think they plan on bringing him back unmasked or under a different persona, not sure.

LAX? Homicide has the credentials to be an X Champ. Him and Hernandez are, to put it short, a two-man wrecking crew. And Ariel? I'd get rid of her. Explain to me how she fits in LAX except as eye candy. She isn't that hot, either.

But yeah, Russo needs to be fired.

And Gnarff, I should give you a heads-up... CZW is an indy promotion, and the only stuff I found is their older stuff, so do not expect groundbreaking sound/image quality.

Despite that, I've found the first TOD to be immensely entertaining... and taking violence to a degree I have never seen before. The first rounds aren't THAT bad. It starts getting good in the semi-finals. The finals? Like watching a human car wreck.

Nick Mondo powerbombs Homeless Jimmy onto six layers of stacked light tubes. That was just the FIRST round.

And who can forget the final round - the match of 200 light tubes - between the Wifebeater and Mondo? OMFG.

[Disciple of The Watch]

Current plans for WM24 are for HHH and Undertaker to win titles. HHH will do a heel turn. You can't see me is busy filming yet another crappy movie, so he will not be grabbing a title anytime soon (thank Satan)... though expect a heel HHH/You can't see me program this summer, which I hope DOES NOT END with HHH losing to this moron.

CM Suck will be getting YET ANOTHER shot at the Extremely Crappy Wrestling title. Whatever.

*EDIT* Oh yeah, Matt Hardy is supposed to be a part of MITB too, and will take the US belt off and put the moron who holds it out of it's misery.

[Gnarfflinger]

Yay! A few months without Seen-it!

I never saw the Marine, and I can simply not see this one too.

I actually like CM Punk. I hope he gets his belt back. Besides, they've got better heels (Benjamin, Burke, Miz, Morrison) in ECW than credible faces.

Matt Hardy would be a good replacement for Jeff in the MitB. Sounds like Jeff is not going to last in WWE this time around over the drug issue. And if Matt does take the US title from MVP, it would be so that they can push him for a major title...

[Disciple of The Watch]

The Marine is basically You can't see me running from explosions. A big PoS, that "movie".

And Jeff Hardy also lost his house to a fire. There's also the fact that one more strike regarding roids, and he's out, and I seriously doubt TNA would pick him back up... though it could be a great move for their crappy X roster. One more insane monkey flying around, woo.

I think that's exactly what's planned, replacing Jeff with Matt. IIRC, there are seven spots filled for MoTB, and there usually are eight open spots.

Matt taking the US belt doesen't bother me, but pushing him to a major title - since he's on Smackdown, that would be the WHC - would be a mistake. Don't get me wrong, Matt is an awesome competitor, but there are many other guys on Smackdown I would consider for a WHC run before Matt.

I won't be crying in my Diet Pepsi if he shuts up the overpaid, overrated jackass MVP, though. (I loved last Friday's Lounge episode just because Jericho mocked MVP - classic).

[Gnarfflinger]

I didn't know about the fire. I knew about the drugs, and speculation was that it was more than just weed. Jeff Hardy really doesn't fit what Vince wants of his talent (the weed is the big thing). I really think that Vince signed him just to keep him away from TNA. I really think that he's one of the rare few WWE cast off's that would thrive in TNA. Him, Christian Cage and RVD for sure. Rhyno has been an asset too.

AS for MitB, I think Kennedy will win, and this will be his push. AS long as he stays healthy and clean, Vince will see what he has in that cocky, mouthy guy from Green Bay Wisconsin...

[Disciple of The Watch]

You didn't knew about the fire? Well, his house was a TOTAL LOSS... and he didn't had insurance. Matt saw smoke, and went to Jeff's place, but he was too late to do anything else but watch the place burn down.

If TNA allowed him to showcase all his talent, Jeff would indeed be a great asset to TNA. He has the charisma, the skill, he's not afraid to wreck his body, and he has some serious intestinal fortitute.

He's also much more entertaining and credible than the moron who holds the X title. Man, what a wonderful day it would be if Hardy returned to TNA and put Black Moronic out of his misery.

And yeah, my money is on Kennedy for the MiTB, but do not discount Matt Hardy either. And remember my prediction of his returning for MiTB? They ran down the card for WM24 and there are indeed seven people who qualified. There were eight last year, so it makes sense the eighth spot is for Hardy.

But putting the overpaid jackass, the joke and the former Raw jobber in the match? Whatever.

Since HHH is supposed to be the one winning the WWE title and Undertaker reclaims his WHC, I've decided to order WM24 with a few friends. This should be good.

Stink returns to TNA this week. WHatever.

[Disciple of The Watch]

Hahaha, Kane pinned Chavo Guerrero in SIX seconds to win the Extremely Crappy Wrestling championship...

16-0

Flair is history

Punk = MiTB

Orton retains

Glamazon/Melina win

JBL won Belfast Brawl - got physical with the little mutant

Mayweather "defeated" the Big Show by knockout. What an humiliation for the Big Show.

Batista defeated Umaga (plans are to move Umaga to SmackDown)

Overall, a not too bad PPV.

[Gnarfflinger]

YES! Kane is a champion! It's about bloody time!

But Ornton retaining the belt? WTF?

I knew Flair wanted to retire at Wrestlemania...

JBL may be getting a serious push for his comeback.

I wonder what the Big Slow was payed for that dive...

I'd love to see a Batista vs Umaga feud, and Umaga vs Taker would be a great brawl...

[Disciple of The Watch]

Yep, a Big Red Champ is a good thing, but remember which retarded monkey won MiTB.

Orton retaining could lead to a feud with JBL... when was the last time we saw a classic heel VS heel match? JBL as WWE champ? You'll get no arguments from me - one more credible heel is a good addition to the roster.

Big Show has been a face since he returned. I'm not too crazy about that, but hey, if he whoops The Great Plan B's arse, then everything is well.

Batista/Umaga could DEFINITIVELY happen. Taker is embroiled with Edge and his cronies, so if it happens, it will be later.

I kinda wonder what happens with the HHH turning heel program now. Sure, he still could do it (the man himself has been saying he wants to do it), but for the love of Satan, NOT a feud with You can't see me.

Oh yeah... Killings and Harris? Both on Smackdown.

[Gnarfflinger]

I saw that Cryme Tyme has also returned. I guess that getting Fired doesn't mean the same in WWE.

JBL vs RKO would be a good fight. I also think that Matt Hardy could make things Miserable for Ornton.

HHH vs Seen-it? Anything that involves Sledge hammers and Seen-it's mellon would be the best thing since Galligher's Sledge-O-Matic sketch!

Killings and Harris both got stale in TNA. Harris I blame for his own misfortunes, as he was half of one of the top teams in the industry (at the time), but Killings is a victim of Russo's incompetence.

I think that CM Punk, if the character is truthful, is the direction that Wrestling needs to head--no drugs and someone that's not a big, lumbering goon. Punk has some talent in the ring, and I'd like to see what he could do with a real push.

Big Show vs Khali: YES! Finally a Big man vs Big Man feud that might not be one sided. The problem that both face is that there is limits on what can be done with them because of their size. Andre worked it so long because it was the days of regional promotions, and Vince Sr. knew enough to send him touring other areas and make more money off him...

That begs an interesting question: Could Vince make money off sending some of his talent to tour other companies? Drawing a blank for Finley? Who could he fight in TNA for a few months while you work on a new story line for him to come back to WWE. Would Taker draw enough money somewhere else to justify a tour? Would enough people pay money, perhaps an inflated ticket price or increased buy rate for a PPV to see Taker vs Stink, Squirt Angle, Samoa Joe? Kane as a partner for Eric Young against Rellik and Black Reign? Never happen because Vince is an arrogant p***k and Russo is an idiot, but what if...

[Disciple of The Watch]

Yeah, I saw that. There were rumblings that Cryme Tyme wanted to go to TNA, and maybe the WWE was afraid of a young talented tag team going to TNA, so they signed them back. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

JBL vs Randy Orton? My money's on JBL. Keep in mind he's the longest reigning WWE Champ in Smackdown's history. He's also one of the most hated heels, so this can set the stage for a GREAT feud with a big babyface. JBL will hold the WWE Championship again, mark my words.

Well, with Orton having retained, I'm not sure what happens to the program. The original plans were a heel HHH/You can't see me program this summer supposedly culminating at Summerslam. The Judgement Day poster features HHH, so it's not impossible he might have a huge incidence on this PPV. Time will tell.

Show/Khali? This is a chance to push Show. I've heard ramblings of Show getting a push that might culminate into a WHC reign.

[Disciple of The Watch]

The era of crapitude (is that even a word?) which TNA is going through might be coming to an end. Jeff Jarrett has clearly stated he wants more seriousness in the product, and Dutch Mantell wants what Jarrett wants, so maybe there's still hope.

Oh yeah... Backlash will feature JBL vs Orton vs HHH, with HHH being booked to win the title.

You'll get no arguments from me about the King of Kings reclaiming the title, though I must say JBL losing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, because out of the three, I'm vouching for JBL.

[Gnarfflinger]

So TNA is going back to Wrestling? They may survive after all. The first thing is to fire Russo...

I could see HHH as a face feuding with JBL for the summer, then his heel turn (which may not have the desired effect) to fight Seen it.

I think that there is a growing class of talent that, no matter what they do, the fans will cheer them. They are legends, and the fans want to see them do what they've always done. Ric Flair was doing things that got him bood heavily until the mid 90's and was among the most popular personalities in WWE until he retired. HBK is still the same cocky guy that he's always been, but he gets cheered because of his accomplishments. Same story for the Undertaker and Jerry Lawler. I would add the Game into that category too, so I doubt he could get the heat he once got. Now if they wanted to turn Seen-it into the hated goodie two shoes, like the early days of the Honky Tonk Man (Yes, I'm old enough to remember that) and Rocky Mavia (before he made his first heel turn). Basically, play the guy as a face, but have the fans boo him out of the building. It could work...

[The Shaman]

Originally Posted by Gnarfflinger

I'd love to see a Batista vs Umaga feud, and Umaga vs Taker would be a great brawl...

It would be good, but there is one thing about this kind of "heels" - I think monster heels was the right term - that irks me to no end: they almost never, in the last few years of WWE, win big matches. This was incredibly obvious with Khali and his performance on the big PPVs, but Umaga has had the same problem. Weekdays come and go, and then they dive at the PPV. It is completely obvious, and it makes it all but impossible to take them seriously. When I was smaller and watched NWO dominate WCW, I was hoping that they'd finally lose, and it was great when it - seldom - happened. When I saw Khali's "domination" and the absurd loss to Cena, I yawned. The match with Cena was one of the worst farces I've seen from WWE so far.

So yeah, a Umaga-Batista or Umaga-Taker fight could be a great one, and a Big Show-Khali "Clash of the Titans" could be a memorable fight. But I'm not betting money on Khali or Umaga winnings a single big match.

BTW, a Umaga-Khali feud might be quite interesting imo: Umaga's resourcefulness and viciousness vs Khali's size and strength. Bonus points if Umaga draws blood.

[Disciple of The Watch]

Oh for the love of Satan... You can't see me is trying to force his way into the main event at Backlash.

FOAD, A-hole! YOU were PINNED at WMXXIV, get over it!

[NonSequitur]

Originally Posted by Disciple of The Watch

Oh for the love of Satan... You can't see me is trying to force his way into the main event at Backlash.

FOAD, A-hole! YOU were PINNED at WMXXIV, get over it!

Geez, as if two consecutive PPV title matches and winning the Rumble wasn't enough...

I reckon Seen-it really needs a heel turn. I know WWE isn't going to do it, because faces sell more merchandise than heels, but honestly, what else is left for the guy? He's been the white-bread top guy for the last few years, he's held the belt for all bar about three months (when he wasn't injured) during that time, and despite him getting a lot better over that time, he's no Austin/Rock.

I can see Cena as a heel, I really can - all the elements are there, including the ability to legitimately get stuck into the fans for turning on him. Remember "Die, Rocky, Die!" and where that led? A vicious Cena with a tendency to get himself DQed while holding onto a submission - just to inflict more pain - could really work for the stale character. They've already put him and his five moves o' doom over as being unstoppable. Of course, he'd need a few months to rampage and build up to a title win; if they started now, he'd be on track for it by Summerslam. He'd also need a good face to work with, and short of HHH, I don't seem many legitimate options there (though I wish they'd push Jericho harder, especially with Jeff Hardy being suspended).

Meh, just random musings. Will be interesting to see how it turns out - I was surprised to see Orton retain at Mania. But please, PLEASE, WWE... don't give us another year of the same old Cena.

[Disciple of The Watch]

Well, it's official, what was supposed to be a CLASSIC match between JBL and Orton is now a FREAKING FATAL 4 WAY. You can't see me has succesfully forced himself in.



/fires up CZW DVD

[martaug]

but, but, but, disciple you know that cena is the new wrestling gawd!

[The Shaman]

Shyeah, right. He reminds me of the Rock, but on some level I liked the Rock... while I just can't bring myself to like Cena. Ok, to be honest, I don't try that much either.

Anyway, just saw WM24. I'd say it was a hit-and-miss affair, to be honest. Here's what I think of the matches:

Spoiler!

- JBL vs Finley: mediocre at best. It had its moments, but by and large forgettable. Having Hornswaggle as a bizzarro version of a cheerleader is absurd. Bring back the old rabid gnome or don't show him at all. Right now he's not even pity material.

- MitB: quite good, especially at times. Benjamin's performance was pretty amazing at times, and balancing on the rope when his ladder was pushed was one of the best moments in the entire thing - as well as Morrison's sault into 3 men earlier on... I hope Benjamin didn't mess his back too badly from that fall - it's not every day someone breaks a ladder with their back. In general most of the people there did a pretty good job, MVP and CM Punk excepted.

- Batista vs Umaga: ok, by and large, but is Umaga ever going to win a big match again? He's got the looks, the strength, he's not too shabby even as far as moves are concerned. It's high time he really got to mail some of the big boys instead of being just another big scary guy for the Chosen of the moment to beat. Apart from his feud with Kane almost 2 years ago, when was the last time he was treated seriously?

- Eddie Guerero vs Kane: was that supposed to be a match? I think Chavo is a pretty ok wrestler, but I do appreciate Kane getting a good push. Yet... In ECW?

- Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels: started very well, but the end was meh, as an extension of "shoot the dog" metaphor shoved down our throats the whole time. Flair put a very good performance in the start of the game (better than I have seen from him in years), and made for a good retirement match despite that pathetic plot angle. Good bye, Naitch - we will never forget you.
I need to find some of his classic matches. Any good suggestions?

- Female match: In itself, the match was quite passable as far as the category goes, although I expected a lot more from a WWE champion, even in that division. Everything about it, however, was pure farce. But hey, what's a little smut if we want to get a few more bucks?

- Orton vs Cena vs Triple H: a good match, overall. I'm surprised Orton retained, and I would have prefered Triple H as a a winner - but the result wasn't too bad either: don't count someone out until you see their corpse, as the Bene Gesserit says . Orton could use a little more skill, but he's tolerable.

- Big Show vs Floyd Merryweather: hybrid matches generally tend to be BS. This one was no different.

- Edge vs Undertaker: I've long had a strange liking for the Edge, and I just saw why. When he's not running around like a boneless chicken he can put a great fight, and that's just what he did. Together with the Undertaker, they delivered a great match that had only one drawback: it didn't last longer.

[martaug]

Sorry disciple but after watching some of the czw clips on youtube, i really cant call that wrestling. It's just a bunch of guys taking serious bumps. I much prefer japanese wrestling. This is just glorified backyard wrestling. oh well to each his own

[Disciple of The Watch]

Also, notice the complete lack of blood at WM24, until Edge taps out to Taker's gogoplata (yes, the move is actually named like that).

MiTB didn't cut it for me. Yeah, it had some good moments, but FFS, the list of participants was ridiculous - MVP? Overpaid and overrated jackass. Carlito? Oh please, this guy is a freaking joke. When I saw the overpaid, overrated jackass about to pick up the case, I swear the whole building heard me curse... then bam, Matt Hardy saves the day -- litteraly. And CM Suck winning? Let's just hope the kid has enough brains to get off that sorry excuse of a laughable joke of a wasted hour of a show called Extremely Crappy Wrestling. He can challenge for the US, or even the Intercontinental, for all I care, but he has way too much talent to remain on this C show.

Umaga is supposed to move to Smackdown. Would be a good thing too, there are some more credible feuds for him there, like the Great Plan B, Big Show, Taker, Mark Henry.

The Female match? One of the biggest laughable jokes I have seen in my entire life. Enough said.

And You can't see me? Good thing it's a Fatal 4-way, finally. If only HHH, Orton and JBL could work together long enough to take this idiot out of the equation, then tear themselves apart like a part of rabid animals for the damn strap.

And whoever wins... please get rid of this blinged horror and restore the classic WWE Championship.

I need to find some of his classic matches. Any good suggestions?

Hmmmmm.... well, Flair had some amazing matches with Dragon Steamboat, Harley Race, Greg "The Hammer" Valentine, Dean Malenko... but one that stands out would be Flair vs Antonio Inoki. Nearly 200k people crammed into an arena in Pyongyang to watch the two all time greats collide.

The Royal Rumble for the WWE Championship (which Flair won) was great too, though I don't remember exactly which one it was - 1991 or 1992, IIRC.

[Gnarfflinger]

I need to find some of his classic matches. Any good suggestions?

There are a couple WWE produced DVDs that have soem of Ric Flair's greatest matches. Seems to me there was a Four Horsemen DVD, a Ric Flair DVD and a Flair Match on the Greatest Stars of the 80's DVD.

You Tube might be able to help you as well. I don't know if there's ways to get a hod of some old NWA footage on DVD or even Flair's first run in WWE...

When he's not running around like a boneless chicken he can put a great fight, and that's just what he did.

That's the way Flair used to act. He'd get DQ'ed or hide behind the Horsemen until the big match came then he'd deliver an absolute classic--and usually retain the belt! Many have tried the trick, but they've never delivered what the Nature Boy did.

AS fro Kane vs Guererro and CM Punk winning MitB, I see this as trying to build the ECW brand in the form more pleasing to Vince. The problem is that the original ECW was so raw that they pissed off whoever they could (unfortunately they didn't always get away with it). By putting Kane, Punk, Bourke, Benjamin, Morrison, Kevin Thorn, Stevie Richards there, you have some attempt to deliver the calibre of action that the old school ECW fans liked. This fails because the only way to accomplish that would be to give Paul Heyman Vince's chequebook and hide the corporate logo...

[Disciple of The Watch]

czw clips on youtube, i really cant call that wrestling.

CZW is Ultraviolence. You have to be a bit loose upstairs to like that kind of stuff, but suffice to say I'd rather watch CZW than those pathetic excuses of wanna be wrestling called WWE and TNA.

WWE is aimed to kids (minus the occasional silicon-inflated cows), TNA is trying to emulate WWE, and thanks to Russo, they're doing a very good job of doing just that.

Japanese wrestling is great stuff, no arguments about that, but it lacks violence.