Medieval 2: Total War

[JSBB]

You could just tortoise in your settlements until your assassins manage to eliminate the Mongol faction for you and then take Jerusalem from the rebels. That is what I did.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

A perhaps equally arduous process. I currently have no assassins above level 4, so even getting an agent capable of taking down a leader is going to take some time. My best option may be to spam assassins out my master assassin guild. However, that's in Oslo - so they have a long walk/boat ride, and I'm not sure which way would be quicker.

However, your mentioning assassins does bring up a viable alternative. I could theoretically turn Jerusalem rebel without actually killing anyone. A combination of spies and assassins could trash a good chunk of their public order structures - spies by creating disorder in the settlement, and assassins by destroying order increases structures, with a particular concentration on masjids. Also, since they are a muslim faction, with the masjids out of action, spamming priests into the area will start converting the population generating even more unrest. Good thing Jerusalem is a city - not a castle.

[JSBB]

Yeah and if the security around their leaders is that bad the success rate for even a level 1 assassin to sabotage should be pretty high.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

Yeah, I'm now at the level of grinding - now may be a good time to go back to the old game of Poland and finish that - I'm fighting the Mongols there too. Of course, winning at this point is a formality. I can't lose at this point, and the only question being how long will it take.

[JSBB]

Due to a bad winter storm coming through right now we have been told to go home and work from home tomorrow. That means I should be able to spend all day tomorrow playing Medieval II on my desktop while scanning for incoming e-mail on my laptop.

[Dalveen]

Spies in a settlement cause unrest? I didnt know that, maybe that explains the high unrest in some of my cities, even tho i have builts a ton of public order buildings.

[Register]

Year is 1796 now, and some new developments.

The old Pope, from my HRE off course, excommunicated me for continously raping the Portugese. I have now taken all but three of their cities, plus a forth I made go rebel with the aid or a spy and an assassin. I had him killed in battle(actually, I captured him and then executed the prisoners, got the Dread Knight routine for that, first time I got it.) and another one of my cardinals elected as the Pope. Full rank again.

On the other side of Europe, Venice have started to pull out more troops to try to take me down. That stupid crusade is still going on down in Jerusalem, with one unit with Poland's king being the only thing left, but the Tirumids refuse to attack him and finish it. I attacked Poland and took Karkow, but they seem to have at least two more castles that I've noticed.

I bought Riga from the Russians for 10000 Florins and then traded map information. After that, I found out there is actually six or seven settlements east of Novgorod. With that Knowledge, Russia have now surpassed Poland, Venice, Portugal, Byzanthine, and the Turks in power. I will have to wait with that conquest for a while, or I'll just buy all their settlements instead.

Hungary got wiped out but not by me, which show that the Mongols are drawing near. The Tirumids are all but exhausted in Florins but still have four or five full stacks of units but they should be manageable when I go down there. But, first it's time to handle the Portugese and Poles, and after that it's Venice-whopping time!

[iLLusioN']

1242 for me and the mongols just showed up a few turns ago. I had to change plans on going south unfortunately, because about the time i got my armies set up to go the Byzantines, Milan, and HRE all decided they wanted Venice, so I have spent my last 30 years taking care of the 3 most powerful factions. I have Milan down to 2 settlements....Antwerp a Buges(i think).

HRE is down to 5 from 17, with Poland helping me out on the far side, and the Byzantines have 3 left, but only because they moved a good ways out into Africa.

I have to take Constantinople from the Turks, as they won it in a crusade about a turn before my army made it to the city.

I think that once I finish off HRE and Milan, I'll take care of the English(who have all but destroyed the French). I have 8 Cardinals, so hopefully soon the Pope will die and I can vote myself into office, as I am near excommunication right now.

[JSBB]

Hopefully the Pope will die? What a passive attitude. Sounds to me like you should send a man to arrange for the Pope to meet a snake.

Edit: Yikes, I just had pretty much the closest battle possible. I ended up with only my general left. I was just sitting here completely stunned after the general single handly took out the final 10 enemy archers.

In a couple of turns I should capture Leon at which time I will have the entire Iberian Penninsula plus all of Western Africa. I must say that this is turning out to be a lot easier than my game as England. At this point in my England game I had Denmark, France, Milan and the HRE sniping at me. In this game I have pretty much been left alone due to my isolated position.

Milan just eliminated France by wiping out the royal family so I guess I will try to scoop up some of the formerly French rebel settlements next.

[ March 02, 2007, 07:26: Message edited by: JSBB ]

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

Due to a bad winter storm coming through right now we have been told to go home and work from home tomorrow.

Lucky for you.

Spies in a settlement cause unrest?

Spies do cause a small amount of unrest in enemy settlements through the spread of propoganda. However, given that it is a small amount, that probably isn't the biggest reason you have unrest in your settlements unless you have several enemy spies camped out there.

I have found that the hardest point to maintain a high level of public order in your cities is when you get to "huge city" size. At that point, you have a lot of factors working against you, with squalor probably being the biggest. The problem with squalor is the only way to deal with it is by raising public health, and there are very few buildings that do that, espcially if you are playing the Catholic factions. The Moors, Turks, Egyptians, (which get hospitals)and Byzantines (which get aquaducts) have structures that improve public health. So unless you have a governor with a trait that reduces squalor, you could run into public health issues that eventually bring down public order.

For me it is not unusual at all to have a settlement that has well over 100% public order while simultaneously running a very high tax rate during levels 1, 2, and 3 of the city (castles are never a problem). It becomes much more difficult once you hit level 4, and very difficult once you hit level 5. At those points, several of my cities have to be lowered to at least a high tax rate, and often times a normal tax rate. There are only rare instances where I have to go to low tax rate.

Of course, eventually even your level 5 cities will be able to go back to a very high tax rate. In addition to squalor, it's low because the public order/happiness increasing buildings for a level 5 city are very expensive, and take a long time to build. So the city is growing but you can't build things/afford things quickly enough to keep up. The huge cathedral structure will set just about everything right in a low public order settlement, but at 10,000 florins and 10 turns to construct, it's certainly not a structure that can be spammed everywhere.

I cheesed my way to a win vs. the Mongols. I have noticed that whenever a crusade was ordered against a city, the Mongols moved the bulk of their forces to that city. So by trying to take down Jerusalem by getting a crusade called to it actually made things worse. It caused the Mongols to station MORE troops in Jerusalem. So on the next attempt, I got a crusade called to Acre, which caused them to move out of Jerusalem. Then my crusading army hit Jerusalem which was (relatively speaking) more lightly defended than usual. I brought all heavy cavalry and infantry with the exception of 2 grand bombards to blow holes in the walls. The Mongols do not defend settlements well at all. The way their units are set up, they are much more effective on the open battlefield. You can't really charge cavalry in cities, and arrow fire is much less effective.

[JSBB]

Oh this is just great. I just looked through my faction heir's attributes and about half of them pretty much say that he is as mad as a hatter. Despite that he has an eight command rating so I guess the men are really inspired by the lunatic.

[iLLusioN']

Well as I've said before I am very bad at raising assassins for some reason. Good with spies, diplomats, princesses, and merchants but assassins kick my ass for some reason.

Eliminated Milan last night, and now i've got a crusade called on HRE, so i'll start sending my "crusading army" through their lands to get as many of their settlements as possible. The Mongols decided to take the lower route, and so I won't have to deal with them at all. I finally got sick of all the other factions decided my ports needed blockaded, so I made myself a 1500 man navy and am currently detroying all other ships.

[JSBB]

Interesting, my faction leader just died and the heir went from being referred to as Ayyub the Mad to being Sultan Ayyub the Chivalrous. You have to love it when your faction leader has the traits Seethes with Anger, Skewed View, Introverted, Feels Unappreciated, and Utterly Insane. Somehow he has a 10 authority despite the fact that when I add up his traits I come up with an authority score of -2.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

I have no explanation for your leader's authority rating. The only other thing other than traits that can modify the rating our your retinue members, but having 12 points worth of authority from retinue members would be extremely unlikely.

I started a game as Venice last night, a faction I have never played up to this point, and one I wanted to add because I have so little experience in fighting the Byzantines, which will certainly be required given the victory requirements.

A couple of unusual things have happened already. Sometimes when you have a spy or assassin complete a mission, your faction leader gets some trait modification, becoming a "master of assassins" or something of the like. I had that happen last night immediately following my assassin FAILING a mission, which I find humorous to say the least. It's like saying, "Thanks to the incompetence of your agent, your king's (or in my case doge's) skill has improved.

The other odd thing is that I opened up the hostilities in this game. I usually wait for someone to attack me, and concentrate on taking rebel settlement before then. The thing is, with the Venetians, there's only two or three rebel settlements that are reachable. There are certainly more than 3 in the immediate area, but all the others are much closer to either the HRE, Hungarians or Byzantines which gobble them up before you get the chance. Florence is still a rebel settlement, but I am hesitant to take it, as I will have to send an army into another faction's territory (namely, the HRE) to do so. I'd rather avoid a fight with one of the most powerful starting factions in the game, despite my being fairly confident that Venice is adequately defended for an attack.

I started my attacks against the Byzantine in modern day Greece, laying seige to two of their cities in the same turn. While under siege, the Pope declared a Crusade against Nicea, which I guess is OK given that I'm at war with the Byzantines anyway, although Nicea can hardly be considered to have been my next planned target, being on the wrong (as in eastern) side of Constantinople. I suppose my eight unit army that just took Thasinwhatever-its-called) will become the Crusading army, although I would prefer to get a few ballistas to join the army if time permits.

Other than that, the only other territories I've claimed have been a few of the surrounding islands. My next planned target will be the pair of rebel settlement on islands on the other side of Italy. After that, I'm not sure. I'm sure by the time I'm at war with the Byzantines for a while, I'll eventually get a war going with someone else, which will likely go a long way in determining my next moves.

[Register]

I have no explanation for your leader's authority rating. The only other thing other than traits that can modify the rating our your retinue members, but having 12 points worth of authority from retinue members would be extremely unlikely.

I think Loyalty also adds up to that, as Authority replaces Loyalty.

Also, I've never seen the Pope call a crusade on an Orthodox nation before, didn't know it was possible.

[JSBB]

I actually checked to make sure there was no authority affecting people in his retinue when I calculated his authority at -2. It still has me puzzled. He has added Deranged to his list of insanity related traits now so he is even loonier than before. Despite this he now has a nine command rating and a 10 authority.

Even more strange is that he has now shifted to be Sultan Ayyub the Merciless. He has not fought any battles since I last checked so just by sending spies and assassins (and going even more insane) he has somehow shifted from a Chivalry of six to a dread of two. I added his traits and retinue for chivalry/dread and the 2 dread is correct.

Actually it kind of makes sense that your King would gain a trait even if the assassin's mission failed. Firstly regardless of the results the very fact that you were willing to send the assassin says something about you. If your assassin failed and was caught then others would know you employ assassins which would definitely impact on how they view your leader.

[Dalveen]

Yeh, ive never been able to calla crusade on an Orthodox faction either. Nicea must of switched hands after you got their map info.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

I'm telling you all - it happened. The Pope declared a Crusade against Byzantine-controlled Nicea. I'm positive that Nicea is still in Byzantine hands, as I am blockading the port of that city, and Nicea clearly has a purple and white flag flying over it. I received the mission to blockade Nicea the turn before the Crusade was called, when I was already at war with the Byzantines. So I can confirm that it was in Byzantine hands at the time the crusade was declared.

I will readily admit that the Pope calling a crusade against an Orthodox city is unusual, but this is actually the second time I have experienced it happening. (Not in the same game though - this was a game a while back.) The reason I have such a strong memory of this event - I even remember the city was Iconium - was because it is the only time that I've seen a Crusade and Jihad declared simultaneously against the same city. If you were the human player in that situation, how much would that suck? I wish I had taken a screen shot of that now, but I distinctly remember one turn seeing a Venetian Army, flying the cross on Iconium's western side, with the Turkish Army, flying the cresent on Iconium's eastern side.

regardless of the results the very fact that you were willing to send the assassin says something about you. If your assassin failed and was caught then others would know you employ assassins which would definitely impact on how they view your leader.

I suppose that does make some sense, although my assassin escaped capture, so presumably no one knows what faction sent him. I also think it's kind of strange that even when your assassin or spy is killed in the mission, they know which faction is responsible. The assassin/spy usually meets with an abrupt end - there certainly isn't an interogation period - so unless he had some type of means of identifying him on his person, there's no way that they'd know who sent him even if captured and killed.

[Dalveen]

Ok, what is the computers problem with giving away its map information? I wanted to know how the situation in Turkey was, so i had my level 8 diplomat, who was hanging around Antioch anyway, go and speak to the first Turk i saw, i asked them for a straight swap of Map info for Map info, they said no, a proposed that i give them my Map Info for 370 florins, i said no and asked for there info plus there 370 florins, in exchange for my info, they said no and offered 500 and on and on this went until they were offering 2000 florins for just my map info. I told them no and they ended the exchange. Next turn i offered them my map info and 1500 florins in exchange for there map info, this was classed as Very Generous, they said no and again offered me 370 florins for my map info, and the cycle started again.

So why wont they give me the map info?

[JSBB]

@ Aldeth - all countries brand their spies and assassins - just like cattle. Didn't you know that?

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

I was unaware of that JSSB. It makes perfect sense now.

@Dalveen - it appears that whenever the AI attempts to negotiate something, it will never, ever, give anything up that it didn't offer initially. In this case, it wasn't interested in trading it's map, and so there was no way you could have forced it to, no matter your offer. It's just like how the AI won't accept a ceasefire if you offer it. If they aren't interested in securing peace, you won't ever convnince them of it.

While I don't know if this works or not, one possibility of figuring out a foreign nation's borders would be to click on "give territory button". I don't know if it would list all the faction's territories, or just the ones you were already aware of.

[JSBB]

Is it just me or are the benefits from joining a jihad considerably less than for joining a crusade?

Edit: Well, I guess the bonus for completing it was o.k. - I am just used to having the better mercanaries available for the crusade.

[Register]

Is it just me or are the benefits from joining a jihad considerably less than for joining a crusade?

Edit: Well, I guess the bonus for completing it was o.k. - I am just used to having the better mercanaries available for the crusade.

I got a problem related to the crusades:

Often, when I join my very first crusade, I get some fancy units to hire. However, after that first crusade, every single one I've joined since only offer the pilgrims, the slightly better pilgrims, and the cheap ships. Why is that?

Sometimes, it gets even worse. During this game as HRE, I never got offered the good units in the first place. =/

[JSBB]

It is amazing how much easier this game is when you don't have to worry about ticking off the Pope.

I have taken the Costal cities from Caen to Marseilles. The English don't have any settlements left on the mainland and given how seldomly the computer sends armies by boat I think that means that I can safely ignore them. That leaves Milan as the only hostile faction right now and I have already cut their armies down from being the most powerful to being nothing.

The Mongols took the high road so they should not be a problem when I go for Jerusalem.

Lastly, I have a maxed spy/assassin pairing that has been making life miserable for Egypt. The Egyptian heir offered me 5000 Florins to bump off the faction leader. Given that I was going to do it anyway I jumped at that offer and I just collected my cash.

[joacqin]

As for loony sovereigns getting maxed out authority despite their traits being added up as negative it is a fairly common "bug". Seems like you get full authority as soon as you go into negative. Dont know if it truly is a bug or if it is there intentional. Makes some twisted sense that people would actually respect someone who wields the power over life and death a bit extra if that person is completely and utterly insane and unreliable. In my current game my king has more screws loose than an Aeroflot jet. Hoping to warp him some more and see the authority jump up. He got decent command and dread.

I am about to engage the Timurids on my Eastern front and moving troops there en mass while my wacky Emperor is wreaking havoc in Europe with his merry band of bloodthirsty mercenaries and jaded veterans.

In general the Byzantine troopselection isnt the best but tehy got one super unit. The Vardatoirai which rival mongol horse archers. They cost a bundle but are worth and usually make up half my army which generally leads to me waiting out so many cities as I can never be arsed to lug around slow artiellery pieces and the Byzantines best artillery is the bombard which plainly spoken sucks.