Dual class and Kit question

dchunghk · Sat, 19th Jul '08, 4:29am

This is going to sound noobish but I couldn't find a satisfactory answer anywhere.

I was planning to go Bounty Hunter/Mage for the Maze/Time Trap/Time Stop combo (anything resist to all three??). Is there anyway to make a mage "dual classing" into a Bounty Hunter instead of the other way round? Is it necessary to start with a specific kit if you plan to dual class? It would be NICE to hit 24 for the thief specials but that would only leave enough exp for a 23 mage

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks

spetznaz · Sat, 19th Jul '08, 11:12am

You can never dual into a kit (except for gnomes which can be illusionists). However, you can use a program called Shadow Keeper to change your dual class picks into kits, for example you could be a multi classed fighter/assassin instead of f/t.

Mayby someone else has some answers; I just woke up

kmonster · Sat, 19th Jul '08, 12:09pm

With shadowkeeper you are also able to edit your starting character into a human multiclass bounty hunter/mage and avoid the long dualing period.

If you want to dual you could just use an XPCap remover (the XPCap is artificial anyway) so you can even play a bounty hunter 39 ---> mage 40.

dchunghk · Sat, 19th Jul '08, 4:58pm

Thanks for the reply.

I wonder if they designed it deliberately so that the class that require more EXP to level has to be dualled first... Is this a balancing issue or coincidence

Decados · Sun, 20th Jul '08, 12:09pm

Not sure what you are getting at, dchunghk. To get to the same level, a mage requires more EXP than a thief, but you can dual from either one to the other. The limitation is simply that you can only have a kit in the first class, but this doesn't affect EXP needed to level up.

spetznaz · Sun, 20th Jul '08, 10:40pm

Aye, Decados is correct. You can only dual class with a kit if you start out with the kit, you can never dual into a kit. Any valid multi-class can be dualed as well, though any class can be dualed in any order, hence you can make a Thief -> Fighter = F/T or a Fighter -> Thief = F/T.

Boy at a busstop · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 10:53am

I think what dchunghk meant was that a mage requires vastly more xp than a thief. So it will take longer for you to regain your thief abilities when you dual thief>>mage.

Personally, I've never had problems with it, although I've never tried dualing at level 23! Seriously, you'll be playing 2 different characters during your run, except for the final fight. You're better off with a mutliclass methinks, SK in a kit if you like.

Proteus_za · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchunghk

This is going to sound noobish but I couldn't find a satisfactory answer anywhere.

I was planning to go Bounty Hunter/Mage for the Maze/Time Trap/Time Stop combo (anything resist to all three??). Is there anyway to make a mage "dual classing" into a Bounty Hunter instead of the other way round? Is it necessary to start with a specific kit if you plan to dual class? It would be NICE to hit 24 for the thief specials but that would only leave enough exp for a 23 mage

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks

As far as I remember, dual classed characters can gain HLAs from their old class.

In fact, my latest protagonist is literally that - a bounty hunter dualled to a mage. I think I dualled him at thief level 8, and he has since regained his thief abilities and can now cast level 5 spells.

I just maxed set traps, because I have another multiclass fighter/thief to take care of traps/backstabbing/lockpicking for me (I'm playing with a party created by me).

Silverstar · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 2:23pm

Huhh, what do you mean? Early-dual classed characters do not get HLAs for their old class, they only get HLAs for their new, advancing class when the advancing class hits 3 M XP.

Multi-class characters get all of their classes HLAs once their total XP is 3M. Hence muli-class characters are way better in HLA department.

Proteus_za · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 2:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Huhh, what do you mean? Early-dual classed characters do not get HLAs for their old class, they only get HLAs for their new, advancing class when the advancing class hits 3 M XP.

Multi-class characters get all of their classes HLAs once their total XP is 3M. Hence muli-class characters are way better in HLA department.

Oh. Darn, I thought I could get time trap.

Doh!

martaug · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 3:46pm

silverstar, he was talking about taking his first class to 23rd-24th level BEFORE dualling to mage. wouldn't he be eligible for HLAs from the first class before he dualled? dont rememer how much exp pts he would need to get that level.

Proteus_za · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 3:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by martaug

silverstar, he was talking about taking his first class to 23rd-24th level BEFORE dualling to mage. wouldn't he be eligible for HLAs from the first class before he dualled? dont rememer how much exp pts he would need to get that level.

yeah, he would be eligible I think, for both classes.

I was talking about dualling from thief at level 8, far too low I think.

I always thought a dual class was counted as a multi class in terms of determining HLA tables to use (as well as item use etc). Ie a thief->mage is a thief/mage as far as BG is concerned, although you cant advance as a thief in the dual class case.

Silverstar · Mon, 21st Jul '08, 3:51pm

Now that I read the whole of it, you are right, martaug. I just reacted to Proteus_za's comment.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Ofcourse, a single classed character will get HLA when he reachs 3M XP. If you dual him after then, (and I seriously question the logic of this, it will be a very difficult build) he will not gain new HLAs unil he reaches 3M XP in his advancing class, and he will only be able to choose from his second, advancing class HLA pool from now on.

To spare the trouble, if you want to be able to use the HLAs of two classes at the same time, go multi.

saros · Tue, 22nd Jul '08, 10:53am

Yes I think that the original ToB xp cap has been set to 8 million in order to:

- avoid any dual-class overpowerness by limiting HLAs and certain class combinations
- avoid multiclass overpowerness (for instance, a F/M/C or a F/M/T would be probably the most powerful character with xp cap removed)
- limit more powerful classes to levels below 40(mages, sorcerers, druids, paladins)

The only way to create a Bounty Hunter - Mage with access to Time Trap and Time Stop will be by removing the xp cap. Or by using SK in order to make a multi BH/M class.

Sat, 19th Jul '08, 4:29am	#1
dchunghk Gems: 1/31 Latest gem: Turquoise Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 186 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 5.98% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Dual class and Kit question This is going to sound noobish but I couldn't find a satisfactory answer anywhere. I was planning to go Bounty Hunter/Mage for the Maze/Time Trap/Time Stop combo (anything resist to all three??). Is there anyway to make a mage "dual classing" into a Bounty Hunter instead of the other way round? Is it necessary to start with a specific kit if you plan to dual class? It would be NICE to hit 24 for the thief specials but that would only leave enough exp for a 23 mage Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks

Sat, 19th Jul '08, 11:12am	#2
spetznaz Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hudiksvall, Sweden Posts: 592 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,985 Level: 14 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 80.34% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	You can never dual into a kit (except for gnomes which can be illusionists). However, you can use a program called Shadow Keeper to change your dual class picks into kits, for example you could be a multi classed fighter/assassin instead of f/t. Mayby someone else has some answers; I just woke up
	__________________ Live forever or die trying

Sun, 20th Jul '08, 12:09pm	#5
Decados The Chosen One Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Great British Empire Posts: 2,432 Blog Entries: 10 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 5,425 Level: 22 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 95.71% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Not sure what you are getting at, dchunghk. To get to the same level, a mage requires more EXP than a thief, but you can dual from either one to the other. The limitation is simply that you can only have a kit in the first class, but this doesn't affect EXP needed to level up.
	__________________ Que sais je?

Sun, 20th Jul '08, 10:40pm	#6
spetznaz Gems: 13/31 Latest gem: Ziose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hudiksvall, Sweden Posts: 592 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 1,985 Level: 14 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 80.34% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Aye, Decados is correct. You can only dual class with a kit if you start out with the kit, you can never dual into a kit. Any valid multi-class can be dualed as well, though any class can be dualed in any order, hence you can make a Thief -> Fighter = F/T or a Fighter -> Thief = F/T.
	__________________ Live forever or die trying Last edited by spetznaz; Sun, 20th Jul '08 at 10:41pm. Reason: typo

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Sat, 19th Jul '08, 12:09pm	#3
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Sat, 19th Jul '08, 4:58pm	#4
dchunghk Gems: 1/31 Latest gem: Turquoise Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 186 Level: 5 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 5.98% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Thanks for the reply. I wonder if they designed it deliberately so that the class that require more EXP to level has to be dualled first... Is this a balancing issue or coincidence

Mon, 21st Jul '08, 10:53am	#7
Boy at a busstop Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 136 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 630 Level: 8 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 92.11% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	I think what dchunghk meant was that a mage requires vastly more xp than a thief. So it will take longer for you to regain your thief abilities when you dual thief>>mage. Personally, I've never had problems with it, although I've never tried dualing at level 23! Seriously, you'll be playing 2 different characters during your run, except for the final fight. You're better off with a mutliclass methinks, SK in a kit if you like.

Mon, 21st Jul '08, 2:23pm	#9
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.83% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Huhh, what do you mean? Early-dual classed characters do not get HLAs for their old class, they only get HLAs for their new, advancing class when the advancing class hits 3 M XP. Multi-class characters get all of their classes HLAs once their total XP is 3M. Hence muli-class characters are way better in HLA department.

Mon, 21st Jul '08, 3:46pm	#11
martaug Gems: 23/31 Latest gem: Black Opal Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: somewhere in the wastelands of america Posts: 1,714 Like: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 4,790 Level: 21 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 74.72% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	silverstar, he was talking about taking his first class to 23rd-24th level BEFORE dualling to mage. wouldn't he be eligible for HLAs from the first class before he dualled? dont rememer how much exp pts he would need to get that level.

Mon, 21st Jul '08, 3:51pm	#13
Silverstar Gems: 31/31 Latest gem: Rogue Stone Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ankara Turkey Posts: 4,048 Like: 3 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 9,458 Level: 29 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 12.83% Daily Activity 2.98% Weekly Activity 1.28% Monthly Activity 2.11% Achievements	Now that I read the whole of it, you are right, martaug. I just reacted to Proteus_za's comment. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Ofcourse, a single classed character will get HLA when he reachs 3M XP. If you dual him after then, (and I seriously question the logic of this, it will be a very difficult build) he will not gain new HLAs unil he reaches 3M XP in his advancing class, and he will only be able to choose from his second, advancing class HLA pool from now on. To spare the trouble, if you want to be able to use the HLAs of two classes at the same time, go multi.

Tue, 22nd Jul '08, 10:53am	#14
saros Gems: 5/31 Latest gem: Andar Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108 Like: 0 Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts vBActivity - Stats XP: 443 Level: 7 vBActivity - Bars Level Completion: 60.67% Daily Activity 62.5% Weekly Activity 9.79% Monthly Activity 4.04% Achievements	Yes I think that the original ToB xp cap has been set to 8 million in order to: - avoid any dual-class overpowerness by limiting HLAs and certain class combinations - avoid multiclass overpowerness (for instance, a F/M/C or a F/M/T would be probably the most powerful character with xp cap removed) - limit more powerful classes to levels below 40(mages, sorcerers, druids, paladins) The only way to create a Bounty Hunter - Mage with access to Time Trap and Time Stop will be by removing the xp cap. Or by using SK in order to make a multi BH/M class.