Starting a new game - advise please!

[Tharlok]

I decided that I needed to give my old IWD a new try since I've only played it once. I completed the game but got slaughtered in HOW and lost interest. Now I determined to complete the game since I really liked it the first time. I don't remember much of the story or where all the good items are (which I like) and therefore I will stay away from the walkthroughs unless I'm completly lost. Anyway, since you can create your own party I think I have a problem...

Too much creative freedom is giving me a headache. I've read some suggestions on party creation but have a hard time deciding right now. I have a tendency to play very similiar parties in BG and wanted to try something different. The big problem is of course that trying something just for the hell of might not work.

I'm not sure if I want to include a paladin. Sure, I remember that there is a sword that only the pally can use but it seems kind of boring if that's my only reason. Right now I'm thinking about taking the following group:

Dwarven Fighter with ** in axes/maces - just pure melee tank.
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist with ** short sword/sling - have never tried one but it looks like fun.
Half-Elf bard for some songs, backup spells and support archer.
Elven Thief/Mage - if I remember correctly I don't need a pure thief and there are not that many scrolls to justify a pure mage.

That means that I have two spots open and of course I need a cleric. But should it be a pure cleric, a F/C or a fighter that duals to a cleric? I really don't know at this point. The last spot could be a F/D or R/C to complement the first cleric but I'm not sure about that one either. Or mayby back to the paladin? Any advise is welcome but please don't spoil the game too much. As I said, I remember parts of the game but not too much so it is almost as going for the first time.

[dmc]

As with most infinity engine games, you can finish this with any motley old party you want. Conventional wisdom is to use dual classes in IWD, rather than multi-classes, because of the relative leveling and experience pool out there. Given that you can swap characters in and out, you might want to try dual class combos. I'd suggest taking a fighter for a couple of levels and then switching to wizard (gets you two fighter levels of hitpoints for a mage character, extra weapon slots, doesn't cost much time in arcane development). The thief and cleric characters can be more problematic, as you need them right away but they also would benefit from dual classing -- but that's really only from a powergaming perspective.

If you're not really powergaming, then I'd suggest filling your last two slots with a druid and a cleric - that gives you plenty of different classes to play with what you've listed above, and you certainly will be able to finish the game.

I'm not a huge fan of paladins in this game.

[Caradhras]

Rangers get extra attacks with a one handed sword in IWD. That makes them somewhat useful.

Dmc is right, you can abuse dual classing in this game.

I'd pick a Fighter 7 dualled to Druid (Druids are rather nice in that particular setting, I mean who wouldn't want one when travelling through Icewind Dale?) and a Cleric. I'm not sure about the Cleric build. Anything would work. A dualled Cleric would mean a harder early game without healing spells but it could be done nevertheless.

Since it's not your first run through the game I'd like to recommend the IWD NPC mod that adds characters with banters and interaction. It's great if you need more life in your party the only drawback is that you can't create these characters from scratch (although you could edit them with dalekeeper).

[Blades of Vanatar]

IWDNPCs is a fantastic mod. I would highly recommend it. With IWD being so linear, it adds the extra something, a BGesque touch, that the game is missing.

[T2Bruno]

Two multiclassed mages mean no high level spells for the final battle.

[Tharlok]

I finally got this game going. I realised that I was spending too much time on a possible party and finally just went with characters I wanted to play. So now it is:

Gnome Fighter with ** in axes and crossbow.
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist with ** in large swords and bows.
Dwarven Fighter/Thief with ** in small swords and bows.
Dwarven Fighter/Cleric with ** in warhammers and sling.
Half Elf Bard with * in bows and large swords.
Human Cleric with * in flails and sling.


Sure, there is no pure mage but the last (and only) time I beat this game I was able to use a bard and thief/mage for enough spell casting. Hopefully this isn't a huge problem when I get to HOW.

The cleric was the hardest choice to decide upon. I thought about R/C or a fighter that later dualed to a cleric but in the end I just went with a single class. I was going with a druid of some sorts but in the end I took an F/C.

[Ziad]

Your revised party doesn't look very different from one I used once, except I had a Fighter/Druid instead of the pure Cleric, and a Paladin instead of the pure Fighter. Whether you want to take the Paladin or not does in part depend on that sword (keep in mind that it is one of the best weapons you can pick up before the expansion), but I also found it fun to have one and it fits well with the theme of the game (just about everything you do in the game is good, so you don't really have to worry about justifying why the Paladin is embarking on evil quests and you don't have to worry about him falling).

The Fighter/Thief surprised me. I expected him to not be very good and mixed in the fighter levels just so he would be a bit stronger, but he ended up doing a surprising amount of damage thanks to constant hiding and backstabbing.

Unlike BG2 you don't need a pure mage here. While the high level spells are very powerful, they're also not as easy to use as in BG2 (Horrid Wilting in IWD does damage your party, for example. NASTY surprise the first time I used it!) and there are far fewer of them. You also don't have as much need for buffing and debuffing spells, so the Bard and Fighter/Mage will be more than enough. Then again I was playing the game on the highest difficulty, which IIRC doubles the XP you get, so my party was levelling pretty fast.

[Tharlok]

The only time I played IWD (about two years ago) I had a paladin and a Fighter/Druid and it was ok. That's part of the reason I didn't wanna use them this time. I usally like paladins but it is nice to try something new.

So I went with two gnomes since I haven't tried it before. I was going with a dwarven fighter but it seemed to ordinary - let's try a gnome axe-fighter instead. Last time I had a halfling F/T so now I gave that role to the dwarf.

Reached Kuldahar without any problems - 5 guys with missiles supports the main tank and against goblins and orcs that's simple enough. The only minor drawback is the lack of money, which meant that I could only afford two spells. Mirror Image for the F/I (who doesn't use any armour) and sleep for the bard. It was really annoying when the bard couldn't cast any spells as she leveled up faster than the others...

[Paromin]

Bards are by far one of the most useful classes in the game. War Chant of the Sith is enough reason to have one. That's not even considering how they level so fast that their Chromatic Orb is stunning stuff early in game. Plus Web and Haste don't really care if you're a Mage or a Bard.

Clerics are preferred to Paladins, the reason is the Chant line of buffs. If your entire party is of the same alignment then you get Righteous Wrath of the Faithful's full effect, which simply amazing thanks to the extra attack. If you want fighting ability then either Dual Class (preferred) or Multi Class (not that bad but the best Cleric buffs all depend on caster level)

Paladins will eventually get those spells, just extremely late even compared to a Multi Class Fighter/Cleric.

The Holy Avenger in this game is decent, although only for the main IWD game, it doesn't compare to the Longsword of Action+4 or the best Axes or 2H Sword for slashing. Not to mention the damage from a Flail you can buy the moment you step into HoW is immense.

Also because of how Righteous Wrath of the Faithful works and how Paladins need to be Lawful Good, picking a Paladin can actually hurt your party.

And trust me you don't need the mega enchantment of that sword until much later in the game when you already have a whole load of weapons.

Now that I think about it Dual Classing at 7 is a rather poor option. Since this game uses True Grandmastery, the real power of the pure Fighter class comes at Level 9 when he can put the 5th star in one weapon for the extra 1 attack and possibly dual at 13 for the final .5 attack but you won't need it if you can utilize Righteous Wrath of the Faithful's extra attack and using a weapon that gives you an additional attack.

This is especially great for dual Fighter/Mages since Mages are already extremely useful at just Level 3 for Web and 5 for Haste. So the extra downtime for a Fighter/Mage dual'd at 9 or 13 isn't that bad.

Lastly, good pick on Gnomes. I've always thought there were the top races to use. They only lose Death ST bonus but are able to have 18 and 18/xx STR over Halfings and 18 DEX over Dwarves (and that 1 AC is worth more than the 9 HP you get for 19 CON) not to mention Fighter/Illusionist delivers quite well.

[T2Bruno]

Now that I think about it Dual Classing at 7 is a rather poor option. Since this game uses True Grandmastery, the real power of the pure Fighter class comes at Level 9 when he can put the 5th star in one weapon for the extra 1 attack and possibly dual at 13 for the final .5 attack but you won't need it if you can utilize Righteous Wrath of the Faithful's extra attack and using a weapon that gives you an additional attack.

I've usually found the extra half attack (not full attack) and +2 damage you gain going from *** to ***** is minor compared to the lost level or two in either mage or cleric. Also, I would rather have two weapons with *** (one melee and one missile) than one with *****.

[Tharlok]

I just completed the Vale of Shadows. No real problem so far but fighting in a narrow dungeon is annoying. The best tactic I could find was to lure the monsters to you one at a time so they could be ripped apart by arrows and slings. Also, having the bard memorise sleep was a dumb idea...

But I finally have enough money to buy the Helmet of the Trusted Defender. The question is who should use it? Both the fighter and the F/I are gnomes so they could both wear the helmet. If I give it to the fighter he has -6 AC which is great. However, since the F/I just have a pair of braclets he could get down to 0 AC, which means that he would be far more likely to enter a melee fight. Right now I think it is better to give it to the pure tank. He never uses a ranged weapon and the F/I has a couple of mirror images memorised.

On a more funny note - the gnome fighter sounds very much like Sarevok...

[Paromin]

Also, having the bard memorise sleep was a dumb idea...

Once you get to Kuldahar, your main disabler will be Web. Don't forget to steal Rings of Free Action from Arundel and Orrick then give those to your tanks.

The question is who should use it?

Frontliners should always receive your best protective gear since they'll be the ones getting hit often. I rarely let my Bard wear any armor because it was simply too annoying to take it off when I wanted to cast a spell then put it back on afterwards. Her only protection was the Armor spell, all her 2nd Level Slots were populated by Web so she didn't even have Mirror Image or Blur.

Even with only 2 AC (IIRC) and the other guys have AC's in the negative values, she always received the least number of hits.

going from *** to ***** is minor compared to the lost level or two in either mage or cleric

Minor?

What exactly can the extra level of Mage or Cleric provide? Especially compared to +2 DpA and +.5 ApR doesn't? That's easily a flat 16-20 (Hasted) plus with all the Cleric Buffs that increase damage each attack can easily do an average of 10 damage.

You only lose out on 10 damage per round with the second weapon. And thanks to Web all your attacks should be hitting 90% of the time so the extra THAC0 isn't really that important, not to mention the extra 2 Fighter Levels from 7 to 9 gives you that extra THAC0 if you're dualing into a Mage.

[kmonster]

Your party will be good enough for HoW. Having a cleric who isn't multiclassed can be advantageous when facing undead in the expansions and without a paladin you are not forced to attack instantly in a certain situation and can do more beneficial things first.