Dagger Master??

[Witchsmeller Pursuivant]

Seeing as I have to start the game over again due to circumstances beyond my control,(said circumstances involving me going to work, a precocious 4 year old with a very bad case of "I wanna be just like dad and play this game", and the "Load Game" and "Delete Game" buttons being so close together)I've decided to try something different this time around. Rather than importing my Paladin from BG1 I would like to go with a Neutral character so I can do some of the quests and take some of the NPC's that I just couldn't bring myself to do the first time around(I'd really like to be able to have Viconia in the party, and not have to listen to Jaheira ***** about "maintaining balance"). I'd like to try out a character somewhat like Silk from the Belgariad, i.e. a Thief with tremendous ability with Daggers. I think this would be a serious challenge to play, but the only way I can think of doing this is to start him out as a fighter, and dual over to thief when I reach Grand Mastery with daggers and 3 points in dual weapons, which would require I take him to level 12 or thereabouts as a fighter. I was wondering if there was some other way to get this type of character without having to resort to cheating. Can any of the thief kits specialize at all?? I know the swashbuckler can in dual-weapon, but I heard he's still limited to base proficiency in everything else. Or am I just wasting my time?

"Choose your death carefully. You'll be stuck with it for a long, long time."

[Shura]

A swash buckler can specialise in daggers, though he cannot achieve grandmastery unlike fighters. Daggers suck anyway, why bother?
green smileys!!!!!

[Ragusa]

Daggers are not thoroughly useless. When creating a dc fighter-thief (btw my fav char) you should do it early.

Daggers have the advantage of very low initiative, which comes in handy at backstabbing. Additionaly you´ll find two really good throwing daggers around in the game (one somewhere in Athlaka and the better one somewhere in Drow City (it works fine even on adamant golems - I won´t tell you where to find both ;p )
However, I would back up my daggers with something more solid, let´s say a longsword

[JohnnyV]

you have a 4 year old who started the game all by himself, that's awesome. I'm sorry you lost your game, that really bites, but wow, bright kid, I'm sure you're proud. (I love kids, my son was lots of fun at 4, he's almost 18 now *sigh*)

[Witchsmeller Pursuivant]

Well, the reasons that I'm looking to do this are because I wanted to do something different. It seems that there are only five different weapons that anyone ever uses (Longsword, Katana, Two-handed Sword, Flail and Warhammer)because they are the heavy hitters. I'm trying to do a concept character that uses the weakest weapon in the game, the lowly dagger. One reason is because it was a character that I always liked, and the other is that I'm a glutton for punishment and I LOVE being frustrated. Anyway, I'm thinking that I'm gonna start him off as a swashbuckler, and then dual him over to fighter to pick up the extra proficiencies. I know I'll be taking a hit on Hit points and such doing it this way, but I'm hoping that the challenge will make it more fun.

"Expect the worst, You'll never be disappointed."

[Weasel]

Don't forget staffs. The Staff of the Magi is IMO the best staff in the game.

[Amon-Ra]

Up that to best item in the game. (Granted of course, you have someone who can use it)

Amon-Ra

[Crawl]

If you really want to do the fighter D thief, you can dual him at level 9. I still don't know how the proficiency points you give him as a thief will merge one you get your fighter abilities back. I do know you get to merge the fighter proficiencies and the thief profiencies as long as you don't put points in weapons you already put points in as a fighter(in your case, daggers and dual wielding). However, I have heard(read: do not personally know) that even if you do put points in daggers or dual wield as a thief, the game will either take the highest proficiency # of the two classes(i.e. if the fighter has more points in daggers than the thief, then the game will forget the points you put in daggers as a thief), or it will just add up the two classes points into one grand total(i.e. fighter 2 points, thief 1 point, fighter D thief 3 points). Regardless, I hope someone can set you straight on that. Once you get your fighter abilites back, you can continue to put points in daggers on up to grand mastery. I am positive of that. That way you get most of the fighters abilities(good thaco, high HP), as well as high thieving levels.

[Witchsmeller Pursuivant]

Thanks Crawl, I wasn't aware that I could continue to further specialize once I switched over to thief. I figured I was stuck with whatever specialization I had managed to get while a fighter. Woo-Hoo, tonight "Burlap" is born (can't very well name him "Silk" or "Velvet", those have been taken. )

"My strength is great because my cause is just"

[Ragusa]

I love thiefs, especially dc kensai-thiefs. They are my favourite characters. Unashamed, I named my thief Radek of Boktor . Amen.

However, some hints regarding prof slots:
-First, I would definitely start as a fighter, using the kensai kit, dualclassing at lvl 8 or 9 for you´ll get the kensai´s AC bonus just like the swashbuckler AND a nice THACO-Bonus for kensais and the nice kai ability (unlike the swashbuckler).
And of course, your thief improves very well during the game reaching almost perfection with thief-lvl 20+ at the end.

-The advantage of dualclassing early (at lvl 8-9) is that you can use your chars full abilities when you need them: during the first quests in Athkatla. The disadvantage is that you don´t get all the fighters advantages but I don´t think thats such a grave disadvantage.
I took it to the extreme with my kensai-thief. I imported him from BG-I where I dualclassed him at lvl-6 and he still is a formidable fighter despite his low fighter class.

-Be aware that when you place some prof slots in daggers as a fighter, lets say 4* and you dualclass and spend one more prof slot 1* in daggers you DON`T get grandmastery, that slot is wasted!!!
While your dualclassing isn´t finished, the prof slot don´t add!!!

-So while dualclassing I would recommend to use every prof slot available in dualwielding or single weapon style (also nice for daggers for it´s AC-bonus and improved hit-dice) previously unused and not to waste it on weapon proficiencies. You can do it later when your dualclassing is finished.

-All in all you can get some 12 prof slots as a dc-fighter/ thief, well enough for grandmastery with two weapons and a **-weapon-style specialisation of your choice. I BG-I I always chose a blunt and a bladed weapon so I could attack my enemies with the appropiate weapon
I guess that give you a superior "punch" compared to a pure fighter, especially at backstabbing, (with the disadvantage of beeing by far more vulnerable) and with increasing level your THACO improves too.

However, when you don´t like to play the nasty, sneaking killer, it´s up to you not to use this ability too much. IMHO.

BTW: The kensai-thief, usually unable to wear armour, can wear Maer´Var´s shadow armor (not the shadow dragon armour).