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Succubus using ethereal visage in act 1?

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by underthewronghat, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Not exactly a one time thing, the game has a habit of introducing new mechanics (like DR, AC/concealment, status debuffs liike from the Bigby line of spells, insta-death spells, and massive spellbuffing) from out of nowhere instead of gradually. This should be the last time you have problems with DR though, heh.

    Having multiple saves definitely helps, and take the time to study what the game gives you story-wise. Like the IE games NWN2 also conveniently gives out items that seem ideal for the specific situation you are about to find yourself in.

    Also, get Blind Fight on as many of your warrior guys as possible. It also works against concealment and you're about to learn the identity of the game's big bad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    At the risk of stating the obvious, you could just cheat your way through the situation, I assume? I know I wouldn't waste much time if I didn't have a save to go back to.
     
  3. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    For some gamers, ever using a cheat code kinda puts a 'taint' on the playthrough itself. ;)
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Not that I have any problems with that frame of mind, everyone's free to waste their time whichever way suits them... :shake:
     
  5. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    Yeah. I'm still tweaking. I just brute-forced my way through a battle doing 1 or 2 damage at a time. Might end up doing the BIG cheat though. Tal may be right.

    Figured out that if you click on Elanee and *then* right click on the companion, you can click "examine" and view the stats. Naloch does 2 claws for (1-2) +2 (Strength boost from Awaken) and one bite (1-3) +2. I don't know what Obsidian was thinking on that one. Clearly the companion has been nerfed. Will try magic fang on a summoned creature.

    Also, found that Elanee does have Greater Magic Fang (lvl 3 spell). :)
     
  6. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    I seem to recall two ways to beat these things. Power attack with a decent weapon, or flail at them until the spell expires and they finally die.

    If it makes you feel any better, this is certainly the most annoying part of the game in terms of unhittable enemies. Don't expect it to get any worse.

    Yeah, many attacks doing small to medium damage- such as many archer and monk builds- become entirely useless when each attack does 1 or 2 damage. Pretty annoying when some of those are really fun to play otherwise in some high level DnD games- HotU comes to mind as the worst culprit.
     
  7. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    -Sigh-

    Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang only work on the animal companion...

    Summon Monster V summons a Shadow Mastiff 30Hp, AC 13, AB 6, Damage (1-6) +3

    *Can't do MF or GMF for the summon, but can do Flame Weapon and Mage Armor. FW won't be very good against the Succubi. Quite frankly I agree with many of the forum posts --the summons suck...

    At least the companion Hp scales (currently has 98 Hp), and I can crank the AC to 27 ==> meat shield... It was pretty funny watching all the Succubi surround him --the pets get all the attention! :)
     
  8. Keneth Gems: 27/31
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    Summons aren't really meant to be the primary source of damage. They're used for utility.

    And yeah, they kinda suck in NwN2.
     
  9. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ooh Shadow Mastiff. He's actually something of a utility summon, not a fighter. You're much better off using Summon Monster IV for the Dire Boar if you want something that can fight. The Shadow Mastiff is also an outsider so Greater Magic Fang won't work on him.

    Naloch makes up for his poor base damage with high AB. Badger companions have the highest AB of all the default animal companions.

    Summons are actually pretty good at dealing damage up until you reach level 14 or so, when they become more useful as meatshields/distractions. You'd need to be a bard to keep their damage/AB decent after that.
     
  10. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    Thanks Par.

    I've got some free time tonight, so I'll try the boar and see what the stats are + try Magic Fang. The spell description says "Animal Companion" so I don't know if it'll work on the summon. But I'll try anything to smack those OP Succubi...

    What utility would the Mastiff provide?
     
  11. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It has a fear howl and can cast Greater Invisibility.

    The way several spells worked was changed in the expansions. If Elanee has the "Natural Spell" feat she can cast Greater Magic Fang on herself to buff her wild shape forms, for example.
     
  12. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    Okay,

    So I fought a Succubus with just Naloch ==> added Awaken, Mage Armor, and Greater Magic Fang.

    Turned off AI on everyone else and watched. LONG LONG LONG battle. Pretty funny and weird. I watched the combat log for a while. Halfway through, I actually got a beer, fired up the grill, threw some dogs on, came back, and it was still going... Eventually GMF ran out. Used a 2nd GMF, that ran out, then I used MF, but it wasn't enough. Noloch got level-drained three times (haven't seen that on the Succubus list of abilities), I cast restoration on him twice, then I was out until next rest.

    Okay, so Naloch had +16 and +11 AB after buffs. AC 27 :cool:

    The combat log said he was attacking at +13 and +8... Not sure what that was about.
    "Naloch attacks Succubus : *hit* : (11+13 =24)"
    Then --no damage info. ??? The next line says,
    "Succubus attacks Naloch : *miss* : (18+2=20)

    Naloch was finally able to damage her with the aforementioned buffs on a crit for either 2 or 3 damage... I think this involved the bite 1-3 +2 (x2 crit) +3 slashing damage from GMF. Not sure how it's mathematically possible to damage the Succubus with an even number if Naloch is just doing enough damage to beat the DR. Any crit + 2 will be an even number, +3 makes it an odd number, and the Succubus DR is 10/cold iron or good. If he did 2, that meant he did 12 --impossible from where I'm sitting. None of this makes any sense to me.

    Meanwhile the Succubus was very slowly able to chip away at Naloch, hitting only on a 20, only able to crit by rolling a 20 on the threat. the Succubus did 1-4 damage, except for a 6-point crit (1/400 chance works if you attack more than 400 times)... Basically Naloch needed a crit and a max damage roll to affect the Succubus.

    The Succubus attacked at +7/+2 AB, according to the combat log.
    The Succubus did a grand total of 98 points of damage to kill Naloch. Naloch only got her to "injured." :(

    Unfortunately, it seems that the animal companion is unable to bypass DR, even with magical help. Good thing I didn't give Naloch Stoneskin...
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  13. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Do you have mods installed? Is your game fully patched?
    This is definitely not normal behavior. Anything with Greater Magic Fang/Greater Magic Weapon has no trouble killing Succubi off in my games, mostly because these spells add magical damage to your attacks.
     
  14. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    NWN2 OC Version 1023 (1765) (Final) Aug 17 2009

    No mods. Got it from a GOG package deal.

    The extra +3 was listed as "Slashing Damage" on Naloch's stat sheet.
     
  15. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Playing the exact same game (GoG, same version) and the original NWN. Sorry but I got my Greater Magic Weapon/Fang bonuses mixed up, they're supposed to be magical in the original NWN and the same damage type as the weapon they're modifying in NWN2.

    I do have a save near the Githyanki Base though, so I decided to replay the cave area. In my game Succubi groups ultimately fell to a hasted party + buffs like Bull's Strength. My party has two bards (PC and Grobnar), Bishop and Neeshka. Everyone went melee and just kept attacking them until they died. Succubi only have around 18 HP, a critical weakness.
    After some testing with other NPCs I found that Elanee has at least two spells that are effective against them: Hypothermia can halve their HP in one cast but the spell can be resisted; while the Quillfire spell does magical damage and ignores SR, though the spell does low damage. Also did some testing with the other NPCs and Qara can actually just brute force them down with Flame Arrow casts or destroy them wiith Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm. Casavir can potentially kill them in one hit with Smite Evil, Grobnar can get them down to "injured" with Cursed Song and Khelgar with buffs, Power Attack and a two-handed weapon can actually pierce their DR.

    Dispel Magic does help, but the odds of it working is about 50-50.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  16. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    Thanks so much, Par.

    I slowly powered through. Tried a few Dispel Magics and a Fireball, just because my spellcasters didn't have anything else that would maybe do something. I hadn't tried quillfire or hypothermia. I took a lot of the long-duration buffs, endure elements, protection from alignment, mage armor, stoneskin, etc, for Qara. She can cast one on every party member way, way ahead of battle, then focus on her few offensive spells from the first initiative roll... Slow battles, but I wore them down. My dual-wielding main (Ranger2/Rogue8) would wander off, and then join back in for a quick 2x sneak attack. That worked the best. :cool:
     

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