3rd Edition D&D Chat (July 27, 2001)

The chat was held in our secondary IRC chat channel and it lasted for about an hour and a half. Keep in mind that no one present and answering the questions is an official expert on 3e, but nevertheless, the answers should all be correct.

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<Taluntain> Welcome all to our first 3e chat. Your hosts for the night are me (Taluntain), Darien and Erran. (We also have a few guests who will answer the questions). You can use the /query nick message or /msg nick message command to relay your D&D questions to us. If you feel you know enough to be among the people explaining the rules, /msg me to be voiced.

<Taluntain> This chat is moderated so only ops and voiced people can talk. Start with basic questions.

<Taluntain> ok, an easy one first (I can get this)

<Taluntain> <septic> What does TSR stand for?

<Taluntain> TSR stands for Tactical Studies Rules... it used to mean something a few years ago, but it was later demoted to a simple company logo

<Taluntain> you can still see it on most fantasy novels... but since WOTC now own the show, it'll be fading

<Taluntain> done

<erran> Gygax's old outfit

<Taluntain> others can butt in of course

<Taluntain> meaning other people are allowed to speak in here ;)

<Beleriphon> We know, but you're just so eloquent.

<Herf> When you choose a craft as a skill, say armoursmithing, what difference does the amount of skill points you put in it make? Does it mean you spend less time making it or what?

<Taluntain> hehe

<Beleriphon> I means that you are more skilled, and less likely to make a mistake.

<The_Cegorach> It means you're capable of performing more difficult tasks.

<_Crawl_> I believe all these things like craft come with difficulity checks

<ayecapitan> to succeed in creating an item you need to roll more than the item's DC, skill gives bonus to the roll

<erran> Right, you add those points to your die roll

<Beleriphon> In general it means that you could finish faster, although all it really does in ensure that you don't have to start over multiple times.

<_Crawl_> and waste money in the process

<ayecapitan> don't forget that you need raw materials 'swell :)

<_Crawl_> don't want to loose some of those if you fail the DC

<Taluntain> ok, we have plenty of people with answers, but too few questions... anything goes folks, start asking otherwise we'll have to use our own questions ;)

<Beleriphon> For a Craft check, convert the price to Silver Piece, and make a Skill Check. If the amount is succeeds by times the DC is the price in silver you finish the item. This cumulative on a weekly basis.

<Taluntain> Q: How does armour class (AC) work in 3rd edition? What has changed since 2nd?

<_Alex_> AC bonuses go up from 10, roll d20, add bonuses, if total > AC you hit

<Taluntain> we have time, you can make longer explanations

<Beleriphon> Armour class increases from 10, and there is no upper limit. A great wyrm usually has well over 40 AC.

<_Crawl_> much more reasonable than the old thac0 I think

<_Crawl_> medium size creatures start with a base ac of ten

<Taluntain> Q: Was THAC0 removed for 3rd edition?

<erran> yes

<_Crawl_> I'd say converted into something a little more simple to understand

<ayecapitan> to hit a target you just need to roll more than its AC. This easy

<Taluntain> <septic> are there any rules to stop the DM becoming a dictator and throwing whatever they wish at the players?

<Beleriphon> Nope..

<_Alex_> Quitting

<Taluntain> unfortunately, you're stuck with what you can get ;)

<_Alex_> Kicking the crap out of the DM

<_Crawl_> except the dm's good nature and an armed revolt by the players

<_Crawl_> heh

<Taluntain> you've seen the Types of DM topic on the forums ;)

<erran> only the rules of common sense

<Taluntain> <DaveO> Ok, a bit general, but with 3e a character can seemingly become very rounded, how does this affect the need for a party with different strengths?

<Taluntain> any takers?

<Beleriphon> It as a huge effect. Even with the new multiclassing rules, each class can make a great deal of difference to the party. Wizards are still the worst fighters.

<_Crawl_> they can become rounded, but with the way characters level up, a character with more than one class gives up more

<_Alex_> A couple rogue levels and you can provide almost any needed skill on your own

<erran> IMHO 3E makes multiclasssing easier and more desirable

<Darien_> <Ragusa> Are there any race specific classes and if there are, what classes/races are there? If I choose a non race specific class - will I suffer penalties?

<The_Cegorach> You can still coordinate your multi-classing choices with the other people in the party, same as class choices at first level were (hopefully!), so you don't all end multi-classing into Wizard. =)

<_Crawl_> no, just race favored classes

<_Alex_> Bladesingers are Elven only I believe

<_Crawl_> well presige classes yes

<Beleriphon> There are no race specific classes in the base classes, although some of the prestige classes have race requirements.

<Taluntain> remember, in 3e any race can be anything... you can also play a monster now

<_Crawl_> but basic classes, any race can be any class

<erran> dwarven defenders are dwarven

<The_Cegorach> I don't think any of the base classes are, but some Prestige classes are race specific.

<Taluntain> well... most races can be anything

<_Crawl_> There are still alignment specific classes, but the restrictions have been lessened. You can have an evil ranger or a good druid now

<Taluntain> Q: What are cantrips and who gets them?

<erran> 0th level spells for mages

<Beleriphon> Cantrips are 0 Level spells. They are available to wizards, sorcerers, and clerics.

<The_Cegorach> Cantrips are 0-level arcane spells.

<_Alex_> 0th level spells that represent minor magic tricks, slight of hand, detect/read magic

<_Crawl_> nothing powerful, but they can be useful

<Beleriphon> Clerics have orizons, 0-level divine spells.

<The_Cegorach> Divine 0-level spells are orisons, properly speaking. =)

<_Crawl_> I believe at least one race gets one or two cantrips automatically

<ayecapitan> some even do damage, but you dont charge an ogre with a frost ray (1d3, right?)

<Beleriphon> sorry folks, must be going.... dang work calling...

<_Crawl_> don't gnomes get a cantrip or 2 just for being gnomes?

<Beleriphon> ttfn

<Taluntain> later Beleriphon

<_Crawl_> like speak with animals or is that supernatural?

<_Alex_> I believe they do

<Darien_> Q: Are there any multiclasses that are *not* allowed?

<The_Cegorach> Re: non-allowed M-Cs: none I can think of, however, there are some penalties for specific classes who take an additional class.

<ayecapitan> Multiclasses that are not allowed are the ones with par example alignment conflict - druid/paladin

<ayecapitan> or am i wrong here?

<The_Cegorach> Capitan, you're wrong. =)

<ayecapitan> but you cannot progress with a class with alignment conflict, so basicaly it makes sense

<The_Cegorach> You could start as a druid, and then switch to paladin. You'd just lose most of the druid benefits.

<ayecapitan> well, 'twas what I meant

<Taluntain> Q: And there's no limit to the number of cantrips you can cast?

<_Crawl_> yes there is a limit on cantrips

<_Crawl_> for mages, the limit is four a day at 2nd or higher levels

<Darien_> <Ragusa> how does the point buy for character creation work?

<_Alex_> have not used that method so i'll pass

<_Crawl_> Ragusa, each character starts with 8 points in all atributes

<ayecapitan> All abilities of a character start with 8 and X points is given to distribute among abilities

<_Crawl_> from there you use whatever number of points a DM allows to buy the stats you can have/want

<ayecapitan> higher stats cost more of those X points

<Taluntain> <Mathetais> The point buy system seems to be frustrating and limiting. Are there any benefits?

<_Alex_> well rounded stats

<_Crawl_> I believe 9-14=1 point spent

<erran> a level playing field

<_Crawl_> 15-16=2 points spent

<The_Cegorach> Another benefit is certainty,

<_Crawl_> 17-18=3 pts spent

<_Alex_> no more fighters with 18str 18dex 18con 3int 3wis 3chr

<ayecapitan> you won't do good with 3 INT :) skill points

<The_Cegorach> I.e., you get to choose exactly what your stats are.

<erran> You can't become a god-like hero just by rolling die for 12 hours

<_Crawl_> and if you lower a stat below 8, you get no benefit from the lowered stat to add to another stat

<_Alex_> I know it's just an example

<Darien_> <Ragusa> So I probably will not be able to play my BG-1/ BG-2 stat monsters in an NWN online game?!

<Taluntain> to people answering: please make longer posts and take your time... make 1 longer post instead of 5 shorter

<Taluntain> we can wait

<_Crawl_> Nope!!

<_Crawl_> oh, alright

<_Crawl_> will do

<Taluntain> <Xandax> Point system - it starts at 8 for each stat? Can you decrease stats under 8 and get points for that to increase other stats?

<erran> not normally

<_Alex_> No, fortunately

<erran> some DMs may allow this

<Taluntain> <DaveO> What exactly is a prestige class and what does it do?

<erran> specialist classes that you can chose after about 5th level

<_Crawl_> A prestige class is an expansion of an existing class a character already has that grants/limits powers to that class, it's kinda like a kit from 2nd edition except you qualify for it later in the game instead of taking it at the beginning

<_Alex_> A prestige class is an additional class you can begin to level in after you have taken several levels in a base class. This new class provides abilities above and beyond those provided by the base class in a manner more customized to your character.

<ayecapitan> the class a little bit like kit in BG2 which can be taken after reaching certain requirements and has its own progress bonuses

<_Alex_> OK, maybe when a question is asked, whoever calls it first can answer so we can aviod this

<Taluntain> <Nippy> Are there any strong advantages to becoming a prestige class?

<Vile_> depends on the class

<_Alex_> Yes, they provide numerous extra abilities as you begin to level in that class.

<The_Cegorach> Yes, there are. Primarily, it allows for a greater customization along the lines that your character wants. The idea is to make them stand out a bit from the average wizard, for instance, by giving them additional skills, powers, or options that a typical wizard doesn't have. The higher-level PrCs, like Heirophant and Archmage, give *big* benefits that someone who just went up in levels as a straight wizard wouldn't receive

<_Alex_> Or for fighters/rouges, the dualist, who specializes in unarmored combat and gains abilities to make the PC more efficient in such combat.

<Taluntain> <septic> Can I still use any of my 2nd Ed books, or will I have to buy them all again?

<erran> buy a PHB at least

<_Alex_> Many 2e books can be easily converted to 3e, however, sadly, your players and dms guides are fairly worthless now. =(

<ayecapitan> you need 3e books to play 3e

<The_Cegorach> Re: books: You can get by with the SRD, a "bare bones" version of the 3E PHB, MM, and DMG, found at: http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

<Vile_> The Player's Handbook is the most useful of them all; however, the DM's also provides many other rules. (mostly for DMs obviously) As for the Class handbooks, they just provide extra customization for your character with new feats, spells, and prestige classes.

<Taluntain> <Xandax> A sorcerer's spell - is that determined by charisma? - and if so - does it work like a mage's intelligence?

<_Alex_> Yes Intelligence is to Mages as Charisma is to Sorcerers

<erran> Bards too :)

<Taluntain> for future reference: anyone about to answer a question say: Got it so we can wait for you before asking more questions

<_Alex_> Good idea

<Darien_> <Ragusa> Can my character receive some training in a guild or a place like that in NWN?

<_Alex_> Depends solely on the DM

<Taluntain> I think he means just in NWN

<_Alex_> oh.. oops

<Taluntain> which is still unknown... afaik

<Darien_> Q: What about Weapon/Non Weapon Proficiencies?

<_Alex_> got this one hold on

<Vile_> ok

<erran> still true, in ALFA it will depend on the DM

<_Alex_> Non-weapon proficiencies are now skills which can be bought and improved with skill points gained as you level. Weapon proficiencies are handed much differently now, in that the whole progression of proficient->grand mastery has now been replaced with numerous other skills such as power attack, cleave, great cleave which are bought with feat points which are gained also as you level, however at a much lower rate. Base profiency

<Taluntain> missing anything here?

<_Alex_> I might be, I'm not sure

<Vile_> One thing to note, Grand Mastery was never in AD&D, only in Baldur's Gate style games.

<Taluntain> <Mathetais> So unlike 1st ed secondary skills, Non-Weapon proficiencies will actually contribute to the substance of your character?

<erran> very much so

<_Alex_> Yes, they contribute greatly. And grand mastery was too in 2e, if you were using the Combat and Tactics rules.

<_Crawl_> Q: About base attack bonuses... When I have a base attack bonus of, say, plus one, and at the next level, my class gets a bonus of +2, does that mean now I have a base attack bonus of +3, or just +2?

<_Alex_> Just +2

<Vile_> yes, it's not cumulative.

<_Crawl_> oh well

<_Crawl_> so when multiclassing, take the highest base of your levels and add them, correct?

<The_Cegorach> got this one...

<_Alex_> Just the highest

<Vile_> You take the total

<Vile_> I'll give you an example

<_Alex_> is it? I never got to a high enough level to really know that one

<Taluntain> ok, let's not spend too long on one question, got plenty more where that came from

<The_Cegorach> No, Crawl. You add them for each class. If you take 2 levels of fighter (+2 BAB), and then 5 levels of druid (BAB +3, I think) your BAB would be 5.

<Taluntain> ok, a repeat here

<Taluntain> <Xandax> A sorcerer's spell - is that determined by charisma? - and if so - does it work like a mage's intelligence?

<Taluntain> got it, some of it

<Vile_> Let's say you have a lvl 3 fighter (+3) and a lvl 2 monk (+1) = +4 total

<Taluntain> the amount of spells you get as a sorcerer is dependent on your charisma, and it works pretty much like intelligence for mages in 2nd edition

<_Crawl_> yes, it is, charisma affects how many spell levels a sorcerer can obtain and how hard their spells are to resist, basically same as intelligence for Wizards

<Vile_> Exactly. A wizard's Int is like a sorcerer's Cha. It effects the DC of his spells as well as giving the opportunity of bonus spells.

<Taluntain> <Xandax> The point system: do you get more points as you gain levels, or some other way?

<Vile_> You gain one ability point to distribute every 4 levels

<_Crawl_> for stats? Yes, every fourth level you get to increase one stat by one, you no longer have to use points to buy stats at that point

<Vile_> And that also means every total 4th level. Ex: a 5th level Fighter and a 3 level rogue would have 2 points to distribute

<_Alex_> up until 20 however, and then you need to gain epic levels to increase them more

<Taluntain> <Mathetais> is the class changing like PST where you can only use the "active" class?

<Taluntain> PST being Planescape: Torment if anyone played it

<Vile_> Not exactly. You have all the abilities of all of your classes at once

<_Alex_> Unless otherwise stated, you can use all gained abilities

<Vile_> However, you still only choose one of your classes to level up in

<Taluntain> <Nippy> In D&D there is "Exotic" weaponry. What is the status of weapon types in 3e?

<Vile_> define status.

<Taluntain> there's still exotic type

<The_Cegorach> I can address this.

<The_Cegorach> In 3E, weapons are divided into three types: simple, which any bloke can pick up and use; martial, which are common enough to be addressed in any "standard" fighting training; and exotic, which are rare and unusual. Proficiency is determined in each type by class; thus, fighters get simple & martial, clerics only simple.

<The_Cegorach> If you want to avoid the non-proficiency penalty for a weapon, you can use a feat to gain proficiency in it, or take a level of a class that has those proficiencies (for martial weapons). Exotic weapons are rare enough that you need to burn a feat to use them properly, regardless of class.

<erran> longbows and longswords are martial, not simple

<Taluntain> <DaveO> Is there any benefit to keeping a character as a basic class instead of taking on a prestige class?

<_Alex_> Keep gaining basic class abilities

<Taluntain> <Xandax> Saving throws - which are there, and what determines them?

<Vile_> There are now only 3 saving throws: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will

<_Alex_> relex/willpower/fortitude, which I believe are self explanatory. They are determined by your level and your stats. Wisdom gives a bonus to Willpower, Fortitude - Constitution, and Reflex - Dex

<Vile_> Your Con determines you Fortitude, Dex determines Reflex, and Wis determines Will

<_Alex_> Each class has a certain progression of bonuses to your saving throws which are made by d20 roll + bonus > DC just like attacks/skills/anything else

<Taluntain> <SlappyDRP> are these prestige classes supported in NWN - do we know?

<Taluntain> got it

<Taluntain> NWN originally won't support prestige classes, maybe later in separate modules/hacks

<_Alex_> I sure hope so :P

<erran> ALFA may support some of them by scripting

<Taluntain> <Ragusa> Can I also choose a prestige class for a multiclass character ? And if I do so, will I be able to progress in the other class?

<Taluntain> (everyone seems to be into prestige classes)

<Taluntain> hehe

<_Alex_> yes, prestige classes are taken just like regular classes

<_Alex_> it's like multiclassing again, except there are prerequisites

<Taluntain> <Ragusa> And: What is the price for choosing a prestige class?

<_Alex_> You must first meet certain requirements, i.e. base attack bonus, certain ranks in certain skills.

<Taluntain> <Ragusa> no - I mean: When I start as a fighter-thief, will I be able to choose a prestige class for the thief?

<_Alex_> You can choose any prestige class so long as you meet the prereqs

<erran> your thief may become a guild thief

<Taluntain> <Mathetais> Will a cleric's limitation override any fighter/paladin martial weapons allowed?

<_Alex_> no, by taking a level in fighter or paladin you gain the ability to use all martial weapons

<The_Cegorach> Clerics no longer have weapon restrictions.

<Taluntain> <Mathetais> Could a cleric choose a martial or exotic weapon as a feat?

<_Alex_> Yes

<erran> no and certain specialist clerics can use swords also

<The_Cegorach> Yes, they could, Mathetias.

<Taluntain> <Xandax> I'd like to know more about saving throws - what kind of things check for what kind of saving throw? (just some examples so I have an idea)

<The_Cegorach> got it.

<The_Cegorach> The saves have been simplified a bit... To avoid something like a fireball or targeted spell, you use Reflex; to avoid mental controls, or spells that attempt to affect your mind, you use Will saves; vs. poisons, or spells that target your health/body, you use Fortitude (like a contagion spell, which gives you a disease).

<Taluntain> <nippy> in the point buy system are there any minimum scores that for example a fighter would have to have?

<_Alex_> There are no stat requirements for classes. However with point buy nothing will be below an 8.

<Taluntain> <Ragusa> Are there any race/weight/size restrictions for the weapons in general ? And: What are the weapons I can choose the finesse feat in?

<Vile_> got it

<_Alex_> Yes, you can use a weapon no greater than one size over you. I.e. a medium creature like a human can't use a weapon greater than size large

<Vile_> Therefore, halflings have to use smaller and less potent weapons

<Vile_> as for the weapon finesse, only very few weapons are able to be used for this. I'll give you the weapons shortly

<Vile_> Only a: Chain, Spiked; Dagger; Rapier; or Strike, Unarmed are applicable for Weapon Finesse as far as I can tell.

<The_Cegorach> Re: Weapon finesse, the feat description says "any light weapon", where light is a size category smaller than you. For a halfling, this would need to be a Tiny weapon.

<_Alex_> I believe there are certain exceptions to that rule, my human fighter had finesse in rapier with is also medium

<The_Cegorach> (Yes, sorry, rapier is the listed exception, and a spiked chain if your Medium sized or greater.)

<Taluntain> Q: Can mages cast any clerical spells and vice versa?

<_Alex_> If they take levels as cleric or mage they can.

<erran> some spells appear on both lists, though at different levels e.g. hold person, light

<Taluntain> Q: How is magic resistance handled?

<_Alex_> Same as in 2e

<Taluntain> there was a question about the list of DMs I mentioned before, here's the url: /ubb/Forum8/HTML/000055.html

<Taluntain> have a laugh

<Taluntain> Q: Do characters get multiple attacks?

<Vile_> Got it

<Taluntain> ok, we'll be wrapping the chat in about 15 minutes, if anyone's got any more questions, don't hold back

<The_Cegorach> msg /Vile_ Weapon Finesse description says, "Any light weapon," which is a matter of its size relative to you. The list is therefore much larger than rapier, chain, dagger, and unarmed strike.

<Taluntain> hm, oops :p

<Vile_> Yes, all classes at some point get multiple attacks. Since every class level gets a different base attack modifier at each level, some get it earlier than others. Basically, if you have a total of +5 Base attack, next level you would get +6/+1 base attack, then +7/+2, etc.

<The_Cegorach> And when you get +11/+6/+1, you get three.

<Vile_> Sorry, my mistake. I was just looking at all the weapon discriptions that specifically said that you could use weapon finesse.

<Vile_> yes

<Taluntain> <septic`cooling0ff> who would win a fight, Dwarf Barbarian or Half-Orc Barbarian?

<Taluntain> presumably the half-orc, heh

<erran> depends on how well they were played

<Vile_> It depends on the stats, but probably the Half-orc since he most likely has the higher strength mod

<Taluntain> and on level, obviously

<Vile_> yes, heh heh

<Vile_> Basically, it all depends

<Taluntain> Q: What's up with magic users and armour in 3e?

<Vile_> Got it

<Vile_> Certain classes (mostly fighting classes) are given armor proficiencies. Arcane magic-using classes aren't. (usually) You may take a feat in an armor proficiency and wear armor, but you incur an arcane spell casting failure. (It depends of the flexibility and weight of the armor)

<erran> the fighter/mage is much more playable in 3E, you can chose the tradeoff between mage ability and defensive ability

<Vile_> And, if you were a fighter/mage, you might want to take a low arcane failure armor like Studded leather (15% spell failure)

<Taluntain> Q: Can magic users use more weapons now? (i.e. a small crossbow for sorcerer)

<Taluntain> well... with a few negatives you can use almost any weapon...

<Vile_> yes

<Taluntain> Q: What's the difference between 2e proficiencies and 3e skills?

<Vile_> Sorcerers are proficient in simple weapons at start, Wizards aren't.

<_Alex_> read up a little ways

<erran> things and with combat casting and the infamous 5ft step you can sling spells in melee

<Taluntain> for 3e you can convert existing 2e proficiencies to similar skills

<Vile_> ... But it's a pain in the butt

<Taluntain> <Ragusa> Will mounted fight be implemented in NWN or will we still walk around there?

<Taluntain> no mounts in NWN... Sorry

<erran> walking it is

<Taluntain> no jumping around either

<Vile_> So, feats in mounted fighting are also out of the question obviously

<erran> or climbing

<Taluntain> indeed

<Taluntain> some would say NWN sucks now *g*

<erran> too difficult to animate

<Taluntain> Q: In 3e, about what level party could take on a dragon?

<_Alex_> ummm 20/20 with epic levels... lol

<_Alex_> depends on the dragon's age

<Vile_> yes

<Taluntain> well you don't even have rules for over level 20 yet

<Taluntain> not official ones anyway

<_Alex_> epic levels are handled in the forgotten realms book I believe

<Taluntain> even though it's pretty easy to calculate

<_Alex_> 20 is supposed to all the higher you can get in a base class, however there is almost unlimited prestige classes so you'll never stop advancing in something

<_Alex_> and of course epic levels which allow you to boost stats gain additional spells over 9th level (for metamagic only) base attack bonuses etc.

<The_Cegorach> As an example, I was in a party of 7 10th level chars, who fought an adult dragon. One PC died, my PC was nearly mortally wounded, and everybody else got pretty torn up, too.

<_Alex_> Wow that is impressive... with 40-50 AC >200HP and +40-50 to hit and all?

<Taluntain> well this is pretty much it for the night. Great thanks to all who were present and either asked or answered the questions. Hopefully we'll pull another chat like this pretty soon... An edited chat log will be available at Sorcerer's Place soon. I will now unmoderate the chat so that everyone can speek freely

<The_Cegorach> Err... sorry... young adult. =)

<_Alex_> That's better :)

*** Taluntain sets mode: -m

<Taluntain> bonds are off ;)

<erran> Thanks for stopping round, Ceg!

<The_Cegorach> No problem, Erran. It was fun. =)

<_Alex_> Can you even kill a Great Wyrm now? 7 20/20 + 2-3 full prestige classes with epic levels would prolly get eaten

<Taluntain> roasted hehe

<The_Cegorach> I'd run like a little schoolgirl, personally.

<_Alex_> depends on the dragon :)

<Taluntain> melted :p

<The_Cegorach> Not even an "I'm Ces!" before I bolted. =)

<Taluntain> erran, you gonna decide on a chatroom name yet?

<erran> I thought we were gonna vote?

<Taluntain> you should write all the suitable suggested names down and send them to me... I could make a poll about it on the front page

<Taluntain> that's what I'm saying

<erran> how many do want to limit it to , 6?

<The_Cegorach> The FRCS, with regards to the Great Red Wyrm Klauth, that it will probably take the combined forces of of an unspecified, but by implication large, number of archmages to bring him down.

<The_Cegorach> The monster's got 722 HP, fer cryin' out loud!

<Taluntain> no limit really, but probably not more than 10

<Taluntain> not bad

<Taluntain> the 3e demogorgon probably has over 2k HP

<Taluntain> heh

<Alerias> Wasn't it 1300?

<Taluntain> only that much?

<Alerias> I could be wrong hehe

<Alerias> Give me a sec.

<The_Cegorach> "only". *peer*

<Taluntain> hehe

<Taluntain> I wonder how long it'll take to get to level 20 in NWN

<Taluntain> it sure went fast in BG games

<Taluntain> way too fast

<Vile_> Leveling is MUCH faster in 3rd edition

<Xandax> Thanx for the info - guys and gals :-)

<Taluntain> unless we'll fight rats for half the game :p

<Vile_> no problem

<Alerias> Take the lowest amount of time you think possible, and divide it by three.

<The_Cegorach> The system's set up so that you should level every 13-14 encounters.

<Alerias> Thats how it works for CRPGs :)

<Vile_> heh, you stop getting XP for them after a while

<nippy> ok guys and gals i gtg thx for the info cya

<Taluntain> cya

<The_Cegorach> (That's in pen-and-paper, not CPRG, btw)

<Taluntain> The_Cegorach, it'll have to be much more for NWN

<Taluntain> you can have 20 encounters there in a few hours

<Vile_> Erran: Do you know if they're going to do Ad-Hoc XP in NWN?

<The_Cegorach> Sounds about like BG2. =) A level every few hours. =)

<_Alex_> pen and paper 3e you should level every session

<Vile_> well, I mean ALFA mostly

<The_Cegorach> Not every session; every 13-14 encounters. You have 13 fights in a session?

<Taluntain> hardly, unless you count bugs you walk over

<Vile_> heh

<erran> Vile - up to the dm, but yes in general

* The_Cegorach looks at Alex in amazement. =)

<Vile_> ok, cool

<Taluntain> hey, that was a fire beetle!

<Taluntain> ooh, a red ant

<The_Cegorach> LOL

<_Alex_> you do more than fight in a session thats worth XP

<Vile_> squash

<The_Cegorach> Anyone read Critical Miss?

<Vile_> what about it?

<Taluntain> nope, what is it?

<Vile_> Crap, I never should have let Amon-Ra Borrow my DMs...

<The_Cegorach> www.criticalmiss.com It's a webzine for "Dysfunctional Gamers."

<Taluntain> not me, then, oh no... (yea, right)

* Taluntain goes look

<The_Cegorach> The comment about fire beetles reminded me of the story re: sewermen in the tavern. (I.e., PCs walk into a tavern, notice it stinks, say something sneering about it. Local stands up, says, "I'm a sewerman. Know what that means?" PCs sneer. Sewerman holds up his shovel, says, "I've been killing dozens of rats a day for 14 years. I'm a level 28 Sewerman. Joe's a Level 25 Sewerman.

<The_Cegorach> "In fact, there's not a man in this tavern less than a 15th level Sewerman. Now, what was that you wanted to say about the smell?"

<Taluntain> LMAO

<Taluntain> prestige class: sewerman

<Vile_> lol

<The_Cegorach> LOL

<Taluntain> try getting WOTC to publish that one

<Vile_> Hey, they have Drunken Master in the Sword and Fist handbook!

<Taluntain> and ritual burning of the manuals, hehe

<The_Cegorach> That's the joy of d20; you can publish it yourself. =)

<Taluntain> anyone up for some more chatting join #sorcerers

<Vile_> It's ok, I'm usually in both

<Taluntain> I know you know but I don't know if they know

<Taluntain> ugh

<Vile_> heh

<The_Cegorach> I might come back in a few; off to dinner for now. Thanks, everyone. =)

<Vile_> bye

<Taluntain> thanks to you

<Taluntain> cya

<erran> bye for now